Ok. They were clearly lengthened at some point, as we have discussed many times.


I think there is a bit, especially for the higher gross weight supplement.

Operating at KHWD, I have never once not made the turn off at D landing on 28L (~2600’ from the displaced threshold). And I have to land with the props pulled back at 1800 rpm in order not to trigger the noise sensor and get a nasty gram. So it would be typically shorter with props full forward.

I have landed and taken off at KSQL a couple times to try it, once at about 11000 lbs. No drama. I probably should have taken the hangar there.

I just used KOWD this past weekend, with no discomfort, at around 11,600 lbs.

It lands quite short, particularly ground roll, without much difficulty. Takeoff can be a little flat if you ease the back pressure at rotation and let it accelerate, but if you don’t it’ll get to 50’ pretty quick.

But obviously I have not tested the acc-stop numbers.

There are definitely things like this in the Piaggio materials which make no sense to me, chief among them, they put a floor on vref at 117 KIAS when we know the stall speed continues to decrease as things get lighter. I'm not sure if this is a VMC consideration or something else, but I do follow the book and put a floor at 117 KIAS even though it's obviously not 1.3x stall speed.

Also, the plane is specifically approved for 9-degree (15.8%) approaches with full flaps, which is a neat trick that you can't do in most jets. When you turn those props into flying garbage can lids and configure the plane, the speed control is incredible. At max landing weight, the plane can be descended at VREF (117-121 KIAS) at 1,850-1,920 FPM (9 degrees).

Being so sure that the fuel gauges over read at low levels, I asked my service to recalibrate them. They defueled the plane and added 100l increments. It turned out that the gauges don't need adjustment. It's confusing and I don't have an explanation, but I understand it's safe to update the FMS from the fuel gauges in flight, adding a couple hundred lbs.

Being so sure that the fuel gauges over read at low levels, I asked my service to recalibrate them. They defueled the plane and added 100l increments. It turned out that the gauges don't need adjustment. It's confusing and I don't have an explanation, but I understand it's safe to update the FMS from the fuel gauges in flight, adding a couple hundred lbs.

A few months ago, I cold connected to the chairman/CEO of Baykar on LinkedIn. They are the company that just acquired Piaggio over the summer.

After some back and forth, I sent him a list of recommendations I had as an owner / operator. He suggested we do a video call to discuss more. We have a group chat with a bunch of owners (we call ourselves PAPA - Piaggio Aircraft Pilots Association !) and I consolidated some feedback from all of them too.

This morning, myself and a few other owners (including some here on BT) did a Zoom call with the CEO/Chairman of Baykar, along with the Piaggio chief pilot, head of production, head of product and head of marketing. It was a fantastic call and they definitely have a lot of irons in the fire to improve factory support, parts availability, production volume, and the aircraft itself.

We saw a sneak peak of some things they are working on and, while I can't share, I can say that it is very exciting and inline with what I believe would improve the airplanes standing in the market.

Also, the fact that they were so open and transparent says a lot about their commitment. I am not sure there is another OEM where the CEO would engage with a few owners directly. It was literal voice of the customer conversation.

I am very excited for the future of the company and seeing more new Avanti's rolling off the assembly line.

If anyone has a lead on a PT6-66 build spec 676 that could be leased or purchased outright I'd be grateful for the info.

The best cabin in the category!!

Very impressive!

Chip-

New marketing team at Piaggio has made some cool posts on their instagram - this one has some great factory shots.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSPqkOTD ... VmcDIxdg==

Cool

Did I read somewhere they are working on reducing the ground noise from the engine?

Hilgard

The EVO (newest model) is 1800rpm all the time, whereas most of us are 2000RPM TOL, so that theoretically would help some. I'd think work would be more around the sound pitch/tone vs. power. It's not loud, just different.

I once had center call and ask me "is everything OK?" Weird call, right, what am I doing wrong? "All good, why?" "An airport neighbor called and said that the "jet" that took off the same time you did sounded like something was wrong with it..."

As Matt said, they changed that several years ago with the Evo.

Three things were changed: reduced prop rpm, changed to scimitar props, and changed the exhaust ducts and cowling to diffuse the exhaust stream before it hits the prop.

And, fwiw, the noise is flyover noise - whereas the MU2 was ground idle noise, the Piaggio at ground idle sounds like most any PT6 at ground idle. It is the high speed exhaust through the prop blades that creates its, uh, unique sound signature.

But it's actually not louder than a King Air, just different. They've done extensive dB testing on this, yet a few airports have banned it not because it was too loud, but because they didn't like the sound of it.

Audio racism!

AFAIK, the only airport with an outright ban is KSMO. It was grandfathered because it had a local ban in place before any federal rules and certifications regarding noise came into effect.

In truth it is similar to other turboprops in the FAR 36/ICAO noise measurements, and not over those limits (if limits are specified).

At KHWD, my home base, they have a local noise ordinance, enforced with sensors a short distance past the runway ends. When I landed there for the first time, I got a letter that I violated the limit. Was not over by much, but was over. The approved Noise Reduction Procedure in the AFM is simply land with lower prop RPM. If I land with the props pulled back to about 1850, I don’t violate the limit.

I have never gotten a violation notice on takeoff. Not 100% sure why, but I suspect it is because the noise ordinance has an interesting carve out - it turns out that the entire ordinance does not apply to any aircraft certified to meet Stage 3. I suspect that is a nod to federal preemption, required by FAA grant requirements. But “Stage 3” is a certification that is only applied to turbojet aircraft. Now, there are a bunch of Stage 3 jets that are A LOT louder than the Piaggio. And so my suspicion is that since enough of them probably trigger the noise sensors on takeoff, they basically just turn off the sensors on the takeoff runway. Just a guess.

The noise issue for the P180 is a weird interaction of the fact it has propellers, its unique sound signature, the fact that since there are low fleet numbers it doesn’t show up in a couple of the FAA AC documents that airport ordinances recognize, etc. It hasn’t proven to be terribly limiting so far.

I believe Ocean Reef, a private island club in Key Largo Fl, used to ban MU-2's and Avanti's. A quick review of their current standards is no ban on MU-2's, they limit the total number of jet TOL and to 20 per day and the Avanti has it's own special rule of no more than 4 operations per day. I'm guessing the only airports in the US that have that number operations are where IJSC, SWA and Sims are based.