20 Jun 2025, 11:01 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.  Posted: 08 Jun 2025, 23:19 |
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 560
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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FL280 (low to avoid 90 knots headwinds) NOLA to ADS today 375 knots at +19 ISA...720 PPH Not bad for an ol' turboprop... Attachment: IMG_5241.jpeg
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 00:06 |
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Joined: 03/01/15
Posts: 974
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Location: Hayward, CA
Aircraft: D50E
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Username Protected wrote:
Why 90 ft off on altitude? That would bother me.
Mike C.
I seem to recall from earlier in this thread that the RVSM gear is the original hardware, so the autopilot isn’t closing the loop on the Garmin altimeter.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 00:13 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: I seem to recall from earlier in this thread that the RVSM gear is the original hardware, so the autopilot isn’t closing the loop on the Garmin altimeter. FL280 is below RVSM, but perhaps the SSEC is still in play at that altitude. Seems odd the Garmin ADC can't control the AP altitude. Mine does. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 06:57 |
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
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Username Protected wrote: I seem to recall from earlier in this thread that the RVSM gear is the original hardware, so the autopilot isn’t closing the loop on the Garmin altimeter. FL280 is below RVSM, but perhaps the SSEC is still in play at that altitude. Seems odd the Garmin ADC can't control the AP altitude. Mine does. Mike C.
Which autopilot do you have? The legacy Piaggio has Collins APS-65, I doubt anyone has done an interface to the Garmin ADC.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 09:23 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
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Username Protected wrote: Which autopilot do you have? The legacy Piaggio has Collins APS-65, I doubt anyone has done an interface to the Garmin ADC. Yeah, Collins APS-65 <-> Collins ADC-85 have some kind of Collins proprietary digital interface that is required for the AP-ADC to be RVSM certified. Also, until recently, the SSEC curves have been treated by Piaggio as proprietary and so couldn’t be used by Garmin (at least not without permission). Both of those issues have been overcome by IJSC and I believe flight testing is underway and maybe nearly complete to certify the package. Then the Collins ADC will be removable.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 09:24 |
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 560
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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Username Protected wrote:
Why 90 ft off on altitude? That would bother me.
Mike C.
I seem to recall from earlier in this thread that the RVSM gear is the original hardware, so the autopilot isn’t closing the loop on the Garmin altimeter.
This is correct. The Collins autopilot is still looking at the three original Collin’s instruments left on panel (not shown) as the RVSM curves have not been resolved between Garmin and Piaggio allowing the autopilot to be tied to the -600xi. Any day now we are being told.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 09:27 |
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Joined: 01/12/10
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, T-6
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Username Protected wrote: Showing ISA + F is weird!
Mike C. Yeah you’re right, this was on one of my first few flights so I hadn’t got it all properly configured. I changed it after that was pointed out by another Piaggio friend…
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 09:51 |
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Username Protected wrote: Which autopilot do you have? The legacy Piaggio has Collins APS-65, I doubt anyone has done an interface to the Garmin ADC. Yeah, Collins APS-65 <-> Collins ADC-85 have some kind of Collins proprietary digital interface that is required for the AP-ADC to be RVSM certified. Also, until recently, the SSEC curves have been treated by Piaggio as proprietary and so couldn’t be used by Garmin (at least not without permission). Both of those issues have been overcome by IJSC and I believe flight testing is underway and maybe nearly complete to certify the package. Then the Collins ADC will be removable.
Yep, Collins calls it the "Pulse Density Bus". Would not be hard to duplicate this from the Garmin ADC once they get RVSM, but the cert effort would likely be greater than the GFC600 effort. I think the APS-65 can take analog air data too, but it may not be accurate enough for RVSM performance. Is IJSC doing the GFC600 too?
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 10:37 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
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Username Protected wrote: Yep, Collins calls it the "Pulse Density Bus". Would not be hard to duplicate this from the Garmin ADC once they get RVSM, but the cert effort would likely be greater than the GFC600 effort. I think the APS-65 can take analog air data too, but it may not be accurate enough for RVSM performance. Is IJSC doing the GFC600 too? I think it was called something else, Collins Serial Data Bus or something like that. I believe a small digital translator box has been developed to take 429 in one side and spit out CSDB on the other. That'll enable the APS65 to function with the G600Txi as air data source. The GFC600 was considered but I think Garmin decided they couldn't prioritize it for some reason.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 09 Jun 2025, 12:02 |
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Location: KSMQ New Jersey
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Username Protected wrote: Yep, Collins calls it the "Pulse Density Bus". Would not be hard to duplicate this from the Garmin ADC once they get RVSM, but the cert effort would likely be greater than the GFC600 effort. I think the APS-65 can take analog air data too, but it may not be accurate enough for RVSM performance. Is IJSC doing the GFC600 too? I think it was called something else, Collins Serial Data Bus or something like that. I believe a small digital translator box has been developed to take 429 in one side and spit out CSDB on the other. That'll enable the APS65 to function with the G600Txi as air data source. The GFC600 was considered but I think Garmin decided they couldn't prioritize it for some reason.
I'm sure you are right. CSDB can also wired for the ADC-80 / FCS-65, there are a lot of variants of the FCS-65 installations.
Skylight used to make a lot of these converter boxes. Blue Avionics does a lot of them now.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 21:17 |
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Joined: 06/19/11
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One of you guys come in to Marathon this afternoon? If so you flew right over my boat in the marina.  Mike
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 14 Jun 2025, 20:23 |
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Joined: 12/18/07
Posts: 20938
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Location: W Michigan
Aircraft: Ex PA22, P28R, V35B
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I bought my V35B from a guy on the west coast and paid to have it flown to my home airport at Gary IN KGYY in spring 2008. I took a picture of it when I went to look at it and just ran across it today. I just now noticed its 2 neighbors. I think the Lear belong to Jerry Springer, but I had never before noticed that nifty Piaggio. Attachment: 124_2429.JPG
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 18 Jun 2025, 17:07 |
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
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We closed the sale of our Piaggio this afternoon. It's been a great airplane for us for nearly 5 years and as I return to the airlines for long distance travel I know I am going to miss it. But as I told Adam the other day in an email exchange I think my days of flying turbines all over the place are finished. I don't have the business missions for it any longer and the cost and PITA factor have overwhelmed the utility. I'm not interested in flying piston singles or twins either as they don't offer the speed, comfort and dispatch reliability for 1200 NM trips that other options do. So, without any reluctance at all I turn my attention even more fully to antique conveyances and go from high and fast to low and slow with relish. If you'd like an entertaining look at what that requires here's the first installment of "History's Greatest Aircraft's" dive into the golden age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VqUaIWOmuIP.S. Everything I've ever said about Neal Schwartz, which is uniformly positive, has another successful chapter added to it as he handled another transaction for me with professionalism, dedication and thoroughness!
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