26 Jun 2025, 19:23 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 13:37 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1931 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: A Citation V driver will think the same...
420+ true is easily achieved. Groundspeeds into the 500s occur, particularly flying east in winter.
Mike C. That's a big number and I didn't realize the V was that fast. That's really not far from our cruise profile on the 55.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 13:43 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1931 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: I'm also curious what your CG looks like on a typical flight? I am often banging up against the rear limit on my plane. This lowers drag by minimizing the downforce required from the horizontal stabilizer.
Just me in the plane I need 100# of ballast to just squeak inside the aft CG limit.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 16:49 |
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Joined: 11/19/15 Posts: 1622 Post Likes: +1496 Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
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Here is a panel shot up high FL430. Gotta love the fuel flow up there. Mike Attachment: IMG_3325.jpeg
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 10 Jun 2024, 21:47 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1931 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: Here is a panel shot up high FL430. Gotta love the fuel flow up there. Mike Attachment: IMG_3325.jpeg Must be nice. I wish the 501 Pratt birds were certified for FL430 Mike the Garmin is showing 666pph but the Williams gauges are showing slightly over 800pph. What causes the disparity?
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 00:40 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20393 Post Likes: +25580 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: That's a big number and I didn't realize the V was that fast. That's really not far from our cruise profile on the 55. I don't typically go for max speed. I'm usually at FL400/410 and 390-410 knots with power backed off from MCT a bit. If I fly FL360 or so and go MCT, I can easily run over 420. I think I have seen as high as 432 KTAS once. Fuel flow is discouraging, however, so this mode is wasteful. There is not that much delta between a V and a 501 in terms of fuel efficiency. I have more efficient but larger engines, lower drag wing, fly higher since I can get there reasonably, and cut through headwinds better. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 00:42 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20393 Post Likes: +25580 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I wish the 501 Pratt birds were certified for FL430 I wonder if they can make it there reasonably. You would only go there on a long trip and that means you started heavy. By the time the weight is low enough to get to FL430, it might be too late for it to matter a whole lot. The FJ44 conversions get there due to extra power. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 07:55 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1931 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: I wish the 501 Pratt birds were certified for FL430 I wonder if they can make it there reasonably. You would only go there on a long trip and that means you started heavy. By the time the weight is low enough to get to FL430, it might be too late for it to matter a whole lot. The FJ44 conversions get there due to extra power. Mike C. I've often wondered myself. On cold days I'm sure I could pull 500fpm from FL410 to FL420, not sure about FL430.
I came out of Vancouver full of fuel with ISA temps and I still had strong climb performance in the 40's.
https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... D/tracklog
Last edited on 11 Jun 2024, 08:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 07:57 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1931 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: The mechanical gauges are not super accurate. Not sure why.
The GTN is pulling data from the engine ECU so it’s accurate.
When I set the fuel total in the GTN it’s shows what I should have pretty close to what I have when I land. Great tool for longer trips.
Mike That is weird. Do the mechanical gauge have a different sending unit?
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 13:05 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1635 Post Likes: +1698 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: I wish the 501 Pratt birds were certified for FL430 I wonder if they can make it there reasonably. You would only go there on a long trip and that means you started heavy. By the time the weight is low enough to get to FL430, it might be too late for it to matter a whole lot. The FJ44 conversions get there due to extra power. Very few of my trips are long enough to make it worth it. When flight planning I use the FF altitude picker and find the sweet spot of time and fuel burn. That tends to be in the upper 30s for my trips so that's where I fly.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 15:35 |
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Joined: 11/19/15 Posts: 1622 Post Likes: +1496 Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
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Username Protected wrote: The mechanical gauges are not super accurate. Not sure why.
The GTN is pulling data from the engine ECU so it’s accurate.
When I set the fuel total in the GTN it’s shows what I should have pretty close to what I have when I land. Great tool for longer trips.
Mike That is weird. Do the mechanical gauge have a different sending unit?
To be honest I have no idea. Haha
At first I was confused and not sure which to believe. But then over time it became clear that the GTN fuel burn was accurate so just ignored the mechanical.
I don’t mess with adjustments on throttles so I really never look at the fuel burn unless I am looking at mileage. I used to spend time messing with different profiles and found MCT was usually the best. If I need to stretch range I go higher but never pull back power in cruise.
With the ECU doing all the work I just don’t think about it. Full power for take off and pull back a little after 1000ft agl and the ECU puts it in MCT. I don’t touch it until decent to keep From over-speeding.
Mike
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 11 Jun 2024, 15:47 |
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Joined: 11/25/16 Posts: 1931 Post Likes: +1576 Location: KSBD
Aircraft: C501
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Username Protected wrote: I don’t mess with adjustments on throttles so I really never look at the fuel burn unless I am looking at mileage. I used to spend time messing with different profiles and found MCT was usually the best. If I need to stretch range I go higher but never pull back power in cruise.
With the ECU doing all the work I just don’t think about it. Full power for take off and pull back a little after 1000ft agl and the ECU puts it in MCT. I don’t touch it until decent to keep From over-speeding.
Mike Ok, that was going to be my next question...how do you monitor fans speeds and temps without accurate indications; but you're saying it's largely irrelevant since the ECU sets MCT. Still though, would be nice to have data. What's the price point for digital gauges that get fed data directly from the ECU? Is the Garmin EIS stc'd?
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 15 Jun 2024, 16:35 |
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Joined: 12/25/12 Posts: 3875 Post Likes: +4089 Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
Aircraft: A36, R44, C525
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Username Protected wrote: I don’t think there is any STC to get my engine data into a Garmin EIS
I have the numeric digital read out for N1,N2, and ITT.
The GTN has combined digital Fuel flow.
I do notice that my left engine uses more fuel than the right.
I find that digital data can drive you nuts. LOL. When I first started upgrading my piston planes with EIS I wanted all the numbers to be the same ok twin engines. That’s a fool’s errand. Haha I look for trends and have a pretty good sense of what my normal opps are to see how things are doing.
Mike If I sync N1 one motor uses more fuel if I sync N2 fuel flow is the same on my Williams engines
_________________ Rocky Hill
Altitude is Everything.
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Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp Posted: 17 Jun 2024, 11:31 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1635 Post Likes: +1698 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: Still though, would be nice to have data. What's the price point for digital gauges that get fed data directly from the ECU? Is the Garmin EIS stc'd? Garmin has STC'd their EIS for the CJ2 and are working on rolling it out for other models. Note that Mike has an Eagle which is a 501SP with an STC to replace the Pratts with Williams. That seems like a pea soup of paperwork to get through. Although I assume the WIlliams are easier to do since the engine data is already digital. My understanding is that the 501 is several years out for AP and EIS certification so we'll have to see how it goes.
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