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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 11:55 
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I'd say its biggest performance limitation is the slow rate of climb. With a maximum rate of climb less than 1,900 fpm even at sea level, it would take too long to get to FL400 for it to be useable no matter what speed was on offer up there.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 14:02 
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The SF50 is a niche jet, designed to be easily owner flown, and a reasonable step up for current Cirrus owners, has no asymmetrical thrust issues, and has a parachute.

Why compare it to other jets that don't have these features? Compare it to other single-engine 5 place jets with a parachute. Oh, wait a minute, there aren't any. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 16:45 
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Give it a few years—I’d imagine it’s a hell of a gateway drug for faster single pilot jets.

Textron and Embraer must be anticipating more people knocking on their door

Imagine the poor ME instructors trying to teach SF50 pilots going back to steam gauges and 6 levers


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 16:57 
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What is the point of this YouTube video really? It still feels like a hit piece rather than educational video regarding aerodynamics.

Is his next video "Why the Lancair Evolution is so dangerous?"


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 17:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
What is the point of this YouTube video really? It still feels like a hit piece rather than educational video regarding aerodynamics.


I agree. He did another video where he and two friends "raced" his Evolution against JetBlue and a rented CirrusJet from Burlington to the Plaza Hotel in NYC. But it's a stupid "race" using contrived parameters, including using different destination airports.

The purpose of this hit piece seems to be just so he can justify the decision he made to build an Evolution. It is a great plane and looks like it fits a lot of missions well, but I can't see the reason why he wants to slag off on the Cirrus.

I wonder how the Cirrus would perform if it had a second engine and the wing span was increased enough to carry the fuel it would need for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 17:25 
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The Cirrus vision jet is based on the global hawk drone. It can even be remotely piloted :)


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 20:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Cirrus vision jet is based on the global hawk drone. It can even be remotely piloted :)


Watch out airline pilots; that aircraft and others are building a data base for pilotless airliners. First to go will be the cargo pilots.

"Pilots" will be sitting in a room monitoring flights, and controllers will be in another room running airports remotely.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 22:26 
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The Cirrus vision jet is based on the global hawk drone. It can even be remotely piloted :)

Next you're going to tell us the Vision Jet's engine is based on the one used in cruise missiles. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 22:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Give it a few years—I’d imagine it’s a hell of a gateway drug for faster single pilot jets.

Textron and Embraer must be anticipating more people knocking on their door

Imagine the poor ME instructors trying to teach SF50 pilots going back to steam gauges and 6 levers

:lol:

I went from an SR22 to a Citation. Had to get my MEL before I could do the type rating (apparently back in the day you could get your MEL in a jet but that is no longer allowed). Did a 5 day crash course with ATP down in Dallas (Arlington). Thankfully, one of their Seminoles had a Garmin PFD and 530 GPS so I didn't have to go all the way back to steam from the G1000. I did have to spend a full evening in their ATD to learn that 530 enough that I could load an RNAV and ILS for the checkride.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2023, 01:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Cirrus vision jet is based on the global hawk drone. It can even be remotely piloted :)

Next you're going to tell us the Vision Jet's engine is based on the one used in cruise missiles. :roll:


A vision jet driver I take it :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2023, 00:01 
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Or the actual yearly hangar cost could be < $3,600 like my hangar neighbor. Actually a44’ wide so just a little larger than standard at least around here. ;)

Anyway regarding moving up. I have two friends with SF50’s.
My neighbor moved from a 2019 to a 2022 and my other friend at a nearby airport moved from his early SF50 to what they probably are calling a 2023.
So both owners wanted to stay with the SF50.
Louder than dammit but sound really cool to a piston driver :woot:

Photo is of my neighbors 2019, had to take the photo op since his airplane matched my car, his new one is a different color.

Username Protected wrote:
Hangar might be $14K.

Mike C.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2023, 12:51 
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For all the people complaining about SF50 speed - my MU2 was 300kts and that was plenty fast. Call it whatever you want, that gets you a lot of places fairly quickly.

It's basically a better M500. Those have little range are slow.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2023, 04:57 
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That's debatable. 20% faster, but at the expense of 50% more fuel. The G2 closes the hot and high performance gap, but the G1 is inferior. The M500 wins the contaminated runway contest. The SF50 wins the incapacitated pilot contest. Debatable.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2023, 09:05 
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The M500 definitely does high hot and contaminated runways better. It can also carry 6 versus 5 adult sized people, albeit depending on weight not very far. The M500 can carry 1400 lbs in the cabin, but that would only leave 300 ish pounds for fuel. Need 150 lbs for VFR reserves. The M600 fixed any range payload issue but at a million more in cost. The M500 is still the lowest cost to acquire and to operate of any currently available certified turbine out there. But is a great plane within its range payload matrix. You can operate a new M500 on a high performance piston budget. The SF50 is a real jet with real jet costs.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is the Cirrus Jet so slow?
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2023, 02:53 
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Joined: 10/31/11
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Username Protected wrote:
There's always been a tradeoff between easy-flying airplanes and best-performing airplanes.

My Citation kind of does both. Easy to fly, 420 knots.

Quote:
It's really the same argument made for jets....

Things do a get lot more complicated to go faster than my plane, for example, swept wings.

The SF-50 is slow because it is altitude limited because it has only one engine. Thick air prevents it from flying fast.

Mike C.

Is the altitude a legal limit or power limit to go higher?
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