Wow that’s a lot of criminals. Hard to believe there are that many involved in the airplane transaction business that are that crooked.

Was that supposed to be in green?

Was that supposed to be in green?

In all the airplane purchases I have made over the years (30+), only two were through brokers.

Both cost me substantial money through misrepresentations.

My last "experience" was related in the thread "Nobody Tells Me How To Run My Business". That airplane is still for sale. So much for an "across the board" tight market.

Aircraft brokers give used car dealers a good name.

Jg

That's too broad of a brush stroke there, JGG.

I've dealt with a couple excellent, honest, helpful, and word-honoring brokers in my buying/selling days. You'll find them right here on BeechTalk.

Arlen,

I knew full well that your response would be posted by someone.

The good ones don't need either my or your endorsement.

The ratio of bad to good makes a "too wide" brush stroke almost impossible.

Jg

I have to be careful what I say about aircraft brokers, because I was one for 15 years… and I do rely heavily on them in our current business. Having said that, I started my company to protect buyers, that was because I couldn’t stand what I saw brokers do to buyers on a regular basis. (I always worked for stocking aircraft dealers)

The biggest issue is that the industry is not regulated and most buyers assume it is. There’s a lot of things that are considered normal business practices that would be illegal in say real estate. There’s no training or certification required to be an aircraft broker unless one lives in a state that requires it.

But, it is unfair to say that all brokers are bad. I know a lot of great brokers, Neal Swartz who many on this forum have used is great. Neal even takes time for my calls and questions, though I know he’s slammed busy!

It’s also important to note that most buyers get upset with a broker because they don’t understand his role, he works for the seller… or often for himself. You can’t feel like he is looking out for your best interest, some guys will just because they’re good guys, but their loyalty is to the seller not the buyer.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad brokers, in this industry “bad” can mean anything from conditionally honest to an outright criminal.

I’m hoping to change, at least in some small way, the entire industry. There’s no reason someone can’t do what I am doing, for piston aircraft purchases. Ironically, this tight market has everyone talking about acquisitions because they have no listings to sell. Hopefully, some will switch sides and represent buyers exclusively. I wish I had figured this out twenty years ago. It’s more work, but it is very steady. I sleep well at night and have been blessed to meet and really get to know some very cool people, very well. The dynamics are different when you work for someone instead of selling them something.

JGG I’m sorry, I apologize on behalf of my entire industry. It’s a cottage industry, very infantile in the business world… aircraft brokers have only been around about 70 years. It will mature, regulation will come. Ethics and honorable business practices will become the norm instead of the exception.

If that airplane is still for sale, consider it a blessing you didn’t buy it. Apparently no one else wants it either!

I’m still scratching my head over the “a lot of my clients in the 2M to 5M range are cash”

Who discusses their finances or source or capital with their broker/agent? Financing or not, for a buyers broker or sellers broker, it would be described as cash- you don’t see financing contingencies in non-real estate transactions, it’s always assumed the buyers ability to perform is taken care of, perhaps a balance statement or equivalent as proof of ability to perform is being confused with cash

Paul, I can assure you none of our clients are laundering money.

I should have mentioned that many will roll the airplane into financing, the point wasn’t that you should pay cash for airplanes, it was that companies have been tight fisted and sitting on piles of cash since being stung in 2008.

You named one broker caught laundering money… I know at least a dozen people who have been caught, some are still incarcerated. I am much better versed than most in what to avoid. The beauty of what I do is that I can be very picky in regards to whom I do business with.

I don't know anyone who makes that assumption.

Regulated doesn't mean free of corrupt or dishonest brokers, either. Indeed, it may make it worse since it gives a cloak of credibility to those who likely don't deserve it.

For example, lawyers are regulated. Did that make them generally honest? Don't make me laugh.

Mike C.

The title work and closing expose if there is financing or not due to the filing of liens.

Deals fail due to financing, just like real estate. Sellers prefer cash buyers and buyers often volunteer that information.

Mike C.

I don't know anyone who makes that assumption.

Regulated doesn't mean free of corrupt or dishonest brokers, either. Indeed, it may make it worse since it gives a cloak of credibility to those who likely don't deserve it.

For example, lawyers are regulated. Did that make them generally honest? Don't make me laugh.

Mike C.

The title work and closing expose if there is financing or not due to the filing of liens.

Deals fail due to financing, just like real estate. Sellers prefer cash buyers and buyers often volunteer that information.

Mike C.

If I were to receive an offer the first question I would have is, is the buyer paying cash or financing the purchase? That information would be communicated through the buyer’s agent. I’d speculate that in the vast majority of brokered transactions the buyer and seller do not have any direct communications.

When I was a broker / listing agent, I didn't know a lot about the buyer's side of the deal. We might have asked for proof of funds depending on the situation, but you are right, normally it is assumed or more appropriately said, apparent.

Our business model is different, we work very closely with our clients in all aspects of meeting their aviation needs, it's not that we ask, this is information that they offer freely. It's usually part of a larger conversation about financing options and tax strategies. My only point is that I've been amazed at how many companies have that type of cash.

Someone mentioned that my neighbor down the road (way down the road) has made a good living pushing the cash only strategy, I personally subscribe to his philosophy. As a rule, I don't finance anything. We ordered an ice machine for the office that is a monthly deal, my wife almost passed out! But, anyway... Dave Ramsey only pays cash... and that includes his Challenger 300!

At some level of a trusted business relationship, most people are very transparent.