That is just terrible!

I hope the v-tail owners are not holding out hope that Textron will offer a ruddervator solution...they would surely love to see all those planes stop flying.

When you actually stop and consider it, it is pretty impressive that Textron still makes and supplies parts for aircraft that are 60 years old. I doubt that anyone thought the planes they made in the 50s and early 60s would still be flying in the capacity they are today.

It's is remarkable. That Textron is still supporting something that old, and the pilots are still maintaining and flying them. We are a disposable country. It's hard, if not impossible, to find any manufactured good older than 20-25 years still in use. Yes, airplanes are maintained by law to a higher standard. But it's still remarkable.

There are still more model T's on the road than any other model of airplane. Though Ford is not supporting them (as far as I know), you can still get parts for them in the after market. If Textron would let third parties supply parts, i.e. release factory drawings, there is not reason our planes can't last as long.

I toke my wife by Piper, Cirrus and Socata someday thinking next 2-3 years i will be in the market. The TBM sales guy was the best totally sold my wife. He had no clue is if i may be able to afford one and to be honest I can't today but think i have shot at one. My wife is on board that the TBM is the best plane for us.

It would help if you use real numbers.

2018 deliveries of piston singles:

Beechcraft: 15
Cessna: 192
Cirrus: 380
Total: 771

2019 has only one quarter reported so far from GAMA:

Beechcraft: 1
Cessna: 35
Cirrus: 66
Total: 154

While Cirrus does sell more piston singles, they haven't quite reached 50% market share, and Cessna sells more piston singles than people realize.

Mike C.

It's is remarkable. That Textron is still supporting something that old, and the pilots are still maintaining and flying them. We are a disposable country. It's hard, if not impossible, to find any manufactured good older than 20-25 years still in use. Yes, airplanes are maintained by law to a higher standard. But it's still remarkable.

Textron just doesn't really want to build an airplane to compete! Who ever owns it really could care less about the product. I have often thought about my V-tail and what it would be all carboned out, with the same Cirrus stuff in it, and the same type of interior!

What I'd LIKE......is just bring my V-tail back to life in 2019, compare the products! I think people would be lining up for a plane as cool as a Bo brought back into the future and made up.


Textron doesn't think outside the box, they still live in it! I would love to see it bought out and someone put the thinking cap on.

My $0.02

Isn't a 4 seat piston traveling plane "brought back into the future" exactly what Cirrus did?

- Modern materials
- Faster
- Safer
- Better interior
- Improved reliability (no gear maintenance, better avionics, for example)
- FIKI (option)
- Turbo (option)

What exactly about your V-tail is it that is superior to the Cirrus as an overall product? The V-tail itself? Sure it's kind of cool but certainly not a game changing functionality for a 4 seat traveling piston aircraft.

People keep saying to put the Bonanza back into production. No one would buy it. Wait - it IS in production, and no one is buying it. Why is that? Because other products are already superior in most functional respects.

I think what everyone really wants is a brand new airplane that can be purchased at a price similar to an airplane that's 50 years old. Wouldn't that be nice.

Nostalgia is a funny thing. It sometimes causes us to not think rationally or objectively.

I know there are some informed people at Textron that are very passionate about Beech and its pedigree. I've seen them and know them.

How many aircraft were being pumped out during the 'heyday' in the 50s and 60s. That just doesn't happen right now. Look at the meager (relatively) number of cirrus aircraft that are being sold. I doubt Cirrus would happen as a company right now.

-Jason

I was and many people around me, surprised to learn that Cirrus has produced just shy of 7300 aircraft.

Many guessed a much lower number, before I told them.

Murray

Jason,

I don't know that I agree with you. Cirrus seems to be a profitable company. I base that on the way they spend money even when it's not customer facing. And they have certainly increased pricing over the last few year at a rate that exceeds inflation in their underlying cost of manufacture. I think they are pretty adept at dynamic pricing.

Passion doesn’t pay the bills. The margin on one Bo sold in the first quarter probably doesn’t even cover the cost of exhibiting at Oshkosh. I suspect the Textron CFO is providing the CEO with dismal financial information which will force hard decisions. And one solution he may choose is to just keep jacking up the prices of replacement parts for an admittedly large captive customer base.

Nostalgia for a long gone time when flying was affordable for the general population. A current G36 at $917k is almost 15 X the current median household income. A 1984 A36, when new sold for about 7.5 X 1984 median household income. The original 36 in 1968 was 6 X. The original Mooney 201 sold for $45k in 1977 which was 3.3 X household median income. The original Cessna 172 was $8,700 in 1958 or only 2 times median household income of the day.

Current new Cirrus or Mooney may sell for slightly less than a new G36 but are still far out of reach of young pilots which the industry attracted in the 60’s - 80’s.