So I've had this under contract since August. I finally closed and had it delivered to WestStar today. It's been sitting in a hangar in Quebec for 2 years. It was a camera ship flying missions for "those that can't be named" for several years before the company went under and it sat dormant.

SIDS are done but there's a lot of items that are out of date. -10's have been rebuilt to the 7000 hour TBO but it appears there's a lot of controversy as to whether I can fly to that standard or not. If I can't, hots are overdue. If I can we're 700 hours til hots. It did just fly from Quebec to Grand Junction, CO so that's a plus.

Panel is close to original and will need a lot. Interior is almost non-existent with a cool peep hole in the floor. I'm going to have to find some seats and cabinets, etc. Paint is in better shape than I expected so not sure how much of it I'll do.

Our first step is to let Weststar tell us if it's worth it to fix up or if we should just sell a nice pair of -10s and get out.

I'll update as I learn more. Here's my pics. It did really happen.

Wow! That's brave! You must have stolen it. I'm very curious to know how the engines performed after sitting for 2 years. Did it hold pressure on the trip home?

Congrats! Hope it works out.

Not sure he stole it, or the sellers shafted him. Time will tell.

Asking price was $500K:

http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... onquest-ii

That does leave some room to put some money into it and still have the value, but it could easily go bad, too.

Good luck!

Mike C.

Ferry pilot said the engines were fine. Lots of avionics and instrument squawks. It was a VFR ferry only so I didn't even ask him about pressurization. It pressurized well for me on the ground in Quebec.

Mike,

What do you think those engines are worth if they are in good shape and you end up needing a pair?

Total guess:

$125K/each without an HSI.

$175K/each with an HSI.

Assuming everything checks out, like reputable overhaul shop, no corrosion, makes power, borescope clean, 7000 TBO is real and valid, maintenance up to snuff, etc.

That particular engine setup only fits on a Conquest II, so limited market. The value of these engines would be for the person who has a runout set and thus they have to compete with simply overhauling the ones the potential buyer already has. A -10 overhaul is ~$225K and nets you a zero time engine, not one at half life.

Mike C.

Cold winter air can hide a multitude of ills.

A friend of mine did a prebuy on an MU2. Engines seemed to be "okay". Discovered that the turbine section was badly eroded from chronic overtemp operation. The cold air allowed the engine to still make rated power. In the summer, the engine would have been a dog.

My friend passed on the airplane, later learned they did a premature HSI to the tune of $75K per engine to get the engines back to health.

Mike C.

Wow, an even bigger project than mine!

But Mike, isn't it like between the Century's that with a simple Honeywell SB, you can turn most -10 into other letter models? Or is this one so specific it's not shared?

I talked to the broker several times about that airplane, but couldn't find an interior to start. By the time we (customer) was serious about buying, it was under contract.

I've looked at 11 441's in the past four months, and we should sign the PA tomorrow on a really nice one that was not listed in the market...

Good Luck!

Jason

I think you could easily spend $200K on just airframe maintenance, possibly more depending on what they find, and to get rid of the camera hole. Then $100K on a decent glass panel but nothing too crazy (think 2 750s and a G600), $40K to find the interior parts and refresh what is there, and $40K for paint. To get the most out of a 441 though you need RVSM which means the panel will cost closer to $200K by the time you add an autopilot and a 2nd G600 (the AP requires dual AHRS). So you would be in it for nearly $500K to make the airplane really nice and you haven't even touched the engines or props yet. If the airframe had 5000 hours MAYBE it would be worth it. But with a 12,000 hour airframe I think there is no way this is worth it. I tried that with a 15,000 hour Commander 500B and it was a great plane for 15 years but when it came time to sell it took more than 2 years. No one wants a high time airframe no matter how good the condition, maintenance, and equipment.

Mike and Scott,

Your numbers and mine both match so I think I'm in pretty good shape.

If I get 15 good years out of it with my new paint, interior and panel at $50k to $55k initial capital cost per year and have to throw it away in 2032 I'll take that as a win.

If I do have to do HSI's on a -10 Mike seems to be saying they should range from $50k to $75k per side. Is that what the MU2 guys are seeing?

Thanks,

Jason,

When you were looking for an interior did you check to see if 421 seats would work in a 441. I know there's a lot of 421's getting parted out but don't have a part number yet for the 441 seats.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cessna-421-Seat ... QK&vxp=mtr

Thanks,

Lance

We're operating a 421 now and they are different seat tracks. The 421 has the "mushroom" shaped tracks list most 100/200/300/400 Cessna's and the 441 has what I think is called "L-track."

One salvage company had a salvage 441 coming in, but I can't remember what the deal was with the interior.

The Cessna 404 had the same seats, so it might be worth checking with the cargo operators to find frames. I never liked the pedestal frames...

The camera hole can be covered up without removal. There is at least one 441 flying around in corporate configuration with the camera hole still there..

Jason

It's a 441. To a certain extent, TTAF doesn't matter. It's very difficult to find a perfect 441 airframe that's NDH, low time, and has complete logs. I wouldn't be scared of a 12,000 hour 441 any more than a 5000 hour Bonanza... About half the market (roughly) is over 10,000 hours, and the other half is getting there.

Jason

Well good luck and I admire your courage. I hope it works out. Where are you going to have most of the work done? West Star Grand Junction is competent but I think they will end up being a little expensive. If it were my airplane I would take it to Bruce Rayner at Technicair Fresno. He knows the airplanes inside and out and can figure out the lowest cost options to accomplish what you want to do with the airplane.

Lance,

I hope it works out. I've been watching that plane on Controller for a while wondering who will bite. Did West Star do the original SID's?
I have some experience bringing a 441 back up to snuff, but nowhere near what you're dealing with.
How is the ACM? If it needs OH it's 25K. Make sure they clean ALL the relays and CB's and check your wiring. Your biggest headaches will arise form electrical gremlins if that isn't addressed. It took us a year to "fly" those off.
If your Computers need work, they will be likely sent to Australia for repair...FUN!
Max Nerheim bought a 441 camera ship and had the hole covered. He maintains his plane at West Star so they'll know where it can be repaired.
Add 100K to any of the previous guesses and you might be close. Lot's of borderline "unobtanium" parts with prices that are made up on the fly. Watch your back with West Star!!!
GOOD LUCK!