You should buy a glider.

If it is really too much work for you to NOT move the flaps when an engine fails, then yes, buy a Commander.

MU2 engine failure checklist memory items:

1. Landing gear - UP
2. Airspeed - Vxse minimum for flap configuration
3. Condition lever - Emergency stop
4. Power lever - Takeoff

That's it. Basically, gear up, fly right airspeed, feather engine. No flaps mentioned.

What are the Commander engine failure memory items? It can't be any less and I suspect it says something about flaps.

Mike C.

Landing with one shut down and feathered is real....even if it was pilot induced. ( I am not that good, but I have a Glider License )

It is necessary to correct all the stupid stuff people say about MU2s when they don't know anything about them. The type has an undeserved reputation continually reinforced by the ignorant.

I am specifically saying you don't have to be super duper to fly one. I transitioned out of a 210 with no meaningful twin or turbine time.

If someone buys a Commander thinking he can be less of a pilot to fly it safely, he is a danger to himself and others. The vast majority of the risk of flying has nothing to do with the machine.

Mike C.

Steve, what is lift off speed (typical wieght) and blue line for your commander?

Vr (at MGTOW) is at 103 KIAS.

Vxse (which is what you really care about to clear obstacles) at flaps 20 is 125 KIAS. 22 knot spread.

Your mindset is that you need to get to flaps 0 Vyse, which is 150 KIAS. That isn't proper thinking for an MU2.


You don't retract flaps on engine failure. You secure the failed engine and you climb. Then, when you have sufficient altitude to clear any obstacles, you speed up and retract flaps on schedule as you see fit.


All planes can be put into situations they will not climb if sufficiently high, hot, or heavy. Commanders are not immune to that.

Gear times are 15 seconds. The majority of it is over in 10 seconds (gear doors on separate motor). Commander times are faster, about 8 seconds from what I see.

In my airplane, with -10 engines, it has to be EXTREMELY high, hot, or heavy that I cannot climb away from an engine failure at any point in the takeoff. There is essentially no "no man's land" for me. For an F model, different story.


Roughly same climb angle as 150 KIAS flaps up. This results in about 350 FPM at MGTOW. Once you clear obstacles and clean up, you get about 500 FPM, but it about the same climb angle.

The Commander does have better OEI climb numbers. That is the benefit of that larger wing.


The question shows a particular mind set not applicable to the MU2. You climb away at Vxse (125 KIAS) or Vyse (130 KIAS) for as long as you see fit until you wish to retract flaps.


Yes. You can chose which to emphasize.


104 KIAS at max takeoff weight. You are never flaps up near the ground, so not really relevant to takeoff or landing work.

At flaps 20 (where I do almost all my takeoffs and landings), stall speed is 87 KIAS. Flaps 40 is 78 knots if I want to really go slow. Versus MGTOW of 10,470 lbs, at a typical landing weight of 8,500 lbs, reduce all numbers by about 8-10 knots.

The flaps on an MU2 should not be thought of as adding drag down low, but as removing drag up high.


I would thought it would be less for that wing area.


There aren't. Every gotcha you think exists either doesn't or is present on a Commander as well.


Good for you, but I'm not sure that grants you right to spout misinformation about other types. You seem to have applied the operating procedures of a Commander to MU2's numbers. It doesn't work that way.

Mike C.

Instructor induced, intentional.

Occurred during my initial training.

As my instructor said, it isn't less engines than a TBM or PC12 has when they land.

I have landed a number of times with simulated zero thrust, which is actually harder (zero thrust engine starts to produce positive thrust as you slow down).

Mike C.

Mike, great points. I like the Commander. I have intentionally steered away from the Marquise because of perception.

It does seem like the MU2 operates in a faster envelope than the Commander in take-off/landing configuration. Does the increased speed increase the workload?

I'm surprised to read the OEI climb numbers of a -10 MU2.

Would you guys please post OEI climb charts for your MU2 and the Commander (-10s)?

Fewer engines....

If it were on the nose, I would agree.

With the instructor....I don't agree. No need to create an emergency to practice emergencies.

There are old wives tales about lots of airplanes, don't let it eat you...(even if some of those old wives are right)

I dont consider a normal takeoff a "situation". Other airplanes can find themselves in that situation when you have a engine failure and another abnormal. On the MU-2 it happens on every takeoff, due to the high amount of drag from gear doors and slow operating times of the gear.



You dont retract flaps because you can't!! Not because you dont need to. They are hurting your climb performance and your ability to accelerate.

Your are retracting flaps. You just have to wait because of the anemic performance.

Most airplanes requiring flap retraction accelerate and climb at the same time.



Not many airplanes use VXSE. The MU-2 switched to using VX in the last 10 years because of the marginal performance in the take off segment.



Piston twin performance at TP prices!



Piston twin performance in OEI situations
Exposure to inabilty to climb Simply by retracting the gear.
Potential for a fatal mistake when retracting flaps.



I am not misapplying procedures. I fly both types of airplanes ones that require a flap retract schedule and ones that don't.

When i am in the ones that dont have the gotchas, its a lot easier and a lot safer when single pilot.

The commander also uses piston twin numbers but they are the good ones.

Stall speed clean on commander 77kts.
Min control 93kts
VXSE 97kts
VYSE 113kts

What is OEI climb performance at MGTOW for a -10 Commander standard day?

Over 1000 feet per minute.

I don't understand this at all. All twins have a Vxse. It's up to the pilot as to when to utilize it, which should be anytime that you are operating with only one engine and you want to climb at the maximum gradient. Why would you not?

I don't have my manuals in front of me but you can expect 1000 fpm with one engine out.

A large forgiving wing helps a lot.

97 KIAS for best angle, 113 KIAS for best rate single engine