05 Dec 2025, 18:02 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 30 May 2015, 21:30 |
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Joined: 12/16/09 Posts: 7319 Post Likes: +2205 Location: Houston, TX
Aircraft: BE-TBD
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Love your posts John, of all lengths. Keep them coming. I also like the SII idea. If you get a wild hair and want to go with either a challenger or gulfstream I've got two guys in grand junction that could help out. Large cabin, great range, the old models are cheap to buy...guaranteed bankruptcy but lots of fun along the way 
_________________ AI generated post. Any misrepresentation, inaccuracies or omissions not attributable to member.
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 31 May 2015, 07:02 |
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Joined: 06/08/12 Posts: 12581 Post Likes: +5190 Company: Mayo Clinic Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
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Username Protected wrote: As a European, I can tell you that be glad you don't live there and own a plane. At least here in America most people have the right spirit about it and understand that it's at least been hard earned and something you've worked for, if nothing else. In Europe they're just envious and will go out of their way to try to stop you from having it. They assume you just got it from a rich uncle and never worked a day in your life by default. Tall poppy syndrome. It has to be cut down.
But I've had the same conversations as well here. Quite often I get chastised for owning an airplane, and any argument saying it's actually cheaper than your yearly golf trips, Caribbean vacations and new cars falls on deaf ears. Hey, you can't win them all. Adam, you made me smile. I have the same discussions with my family and friends in Europe. I tell them I can't afford to play golf, my hobby is much cheaper.
_________________ BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 31 May 2015, 11:53 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 1569 Post Likes: +523 Location: Houston, TX USA
Aircraft: Learjet
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Username Protected wrote: As a European, I can tell you that be glad you don't live there and own a plane. At least here in America most people have the right spirit about it and understand that it's at least been hard earned and something you've worked for, if nothing else. In Europe they're just envious and will go out of their way to try to stop you from having it. They assume you just got it from a rich uncle and never worked a day in your life by default. Tall poppy syndrome. It has to be cut down.
But I've had the same conversations as well here. Quite often I get chastised for owning an airplane, and any argument saying it's actually cheaper than your yearly golf trips, Caribbean vacations and new cars falls on deaf ears. Hey, you can't win them all. Yes, so they make everything a huge ordeal and expense. I flew about 500 hours in Europe last year, mostly single pilot jet but also some helicopter. Everything takes 4 times as long, is 20 times more complicated, and costs 3x as much. But get ready, because that crap is coming to the USA. The mentality is changed to Europe already at many general aviation airports. All of the clarke county Nevada airports are good examples of this, North Las Vegas being the worst. You have a bunch of government employees who are not pilots running the show there, going on about TSA, TSA, TSA, and rules, rules, rules, that they don't understand even 1% of.
_________________ Destroyer of the world’s finest aircraft since 1985.
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 31 May 2015, 11:54 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3038 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: As a European, I can tell you that be glad you don't live there and own a plane. At least here in America most people have the right spirit about it and understand that it's at least been hard earned and something you've worked for, if nothing else. In Europe they're just envious and will go out of their way to try to stop you from having it. They assume you just got it from a rich uncle and never worked a day in your life by default. Tall poppy syndrome. It has to be cut down.
But I've had the same conversations as well here. Quite often I get chastised for owning an airplane, and any argument saying it's actually cheaper than your yearly golf trips, Caribbean vacations and new cars falls on deaf ears. Hey, you can't win them all. Most of those same people will gladly accept a ride. Hypocrites!
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 31 May 2015, 13:03 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6654 Post Likes: +5963 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
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Username Protected wrote: As a European, I can tell you that be glad you don't live there and own a plane. At least here in America most people have the right spirit about it and understand that it's at least been hard earned and something you've worked for, if nothing else. In Europe they're just envious and will go out of their way to try to stop you from having it. They assume you just got it from a rich uncle and never worked a day in your life by default. Tall poppy syndrome. It has to be cut down.
But I've had the same conversations as well here. Quite often I get chastised for owning an airplane, and any argument saying it's actually cheaper than your yearly golf trips, Caribbean vacations and new cars falls on deaf ears. Hey, you can't win them all. Yes, so they make everything a huge ordeal and expense. I flew about 500 hours in Europe last year, mostly single pilot jet but also some helicopter. Everything takes 4 times as long, is 20 times more complicated, and costs 3x as much. But get ready, because that crap is coming to the USA. The mentality is changed to Europe already at many general aviation airports. All of the clarke county Nevada airports are good examples of this, North Las Vegas being the worst. You have a bunch of government employees who are not pilots running the show there, going on about TSA, TSA, TSA, and rules, rules, rules, that they don't understand even 1% of.
It's a pain over there, unfortunately. And TSA and general paranoia will slowly but surely drag the US down to that level.
In my adopted country UK, where I lived many years, it's extra sad as it used to be the beacon of not only European aviation, but almost all aviation in the world. After WWII, they probably had more airplane manufacturers than any other country per capita. All gone now. Yes, there is still small grassroots aviation from cute little grass fields, but it's completely NIMBY'd within an inch of its life. And run by old fogeys who are clicky and think they're sky gods.
Sweden, where I grew up - simply on the basis that there are so few people there and the country is so big - has it a little better. It's a little closer to Canada in it's approach. Still regulated through the hilt, but less so than the UK and you can fly under the 'radar', so to speak.
The one good news is that EASA is actually improving slightly from it's most draconian years. Some things have gotten a little easier recently. It will never become as free as America - the NIMBYs and bureaucrats will see to that. Let's do all we can to prevent the US from going down that route.
Perhaps for a different thread, but we HAVE to grow in numbers. That's the only way we can fight that it becomes like Europe. Nobody would pull the s**t they do on roads and ground transportation as they do in aviation, because there's simply too many users around. We need to become more. Strength in numbers is the only way to save it.
_________________ Without love, where would you be now?
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 31 May 2015, 13:18 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 284 Post Likes: +49 Location: TX, GA
Aircraft: F33A Phenom 300E CJ4
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Username Protected wrote: This leaves the CJ4 / CJ3, or maybe a V, or maybe an SII. I'm thinking that the 4 is an awesome airplane and prices may come down in a few years when the Pilatus and other planes hit the market. I've heard the 3 really doesn't compare to the 4 and the leap is worth it.
Regarding the V and SII, especially the SII, I feel like you're really stretching into a different vintage, especially in terms of support / feel of the cabin for guests (passengers) / ability to finance & sell / reliability / etc. I think the engines are great. Even with the upgrades, I still feel the cabin looks like you're stepping back into 1983.
I think you're a little misinformed on the CJ3/CJ4 comparison. There have been several CJ4 owners who have went back to a 3 for various reasons. There isn't that much difference, just 20 knots and a lot more fuel burn plus longer time to climb to FL450 on the 4. The 3 is the best plane for the money in the CJ series if you're buying used. It has very good performance and will burn less fuel per mile than any of the other CJ's. Nothing wrong with a 4 but the cost diff is significant and isn't worth it it in my opinion. If you want to keep the purchase price low and go with a 500 series, I'd stick with a 560 Ultra. If I'm going to fly a jet, I'd rather have one that can easily climb above 40K feet to clear weather. Otherwise I prefer a King Air if I have to be stuck down low anyway.
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 02 Jun 2015, 10:05 |
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Joined: 12/21/14 Posts: 73 Post Likes: +34 Location: KCAK
Aircraft: Phenom 300, Bell 407
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Username Protected wrote: I want a single pilot XLS. How much longer? From http://jetav.com/citation-excelxlsxls-jack-of-all-trades-the-jetav-blog-by-john-hall/In fact, the Citation Excel was so similar to the Citation V/Ultra pilot-friendly flying qualities, Cessna petitioned the FAA to allow Excel single-pilot capability. This request was evaluated and ultimately denied mainly because the aircraft’s overall size and weight it “felt” like it needed two pilots (easier for the FAA to say no than yes). When the Excel was certified, it was so much larger than any SP airplane out there, the FAA said no way. Since then, the bar keeps getting inched up: CJ series, Premier, more CJs, Phenoms and now the PC-24. If the the XLS was being certified today, it would easily be SP. So, I am told there is no plan for the XLS to be SP, but Cessna is working on a larger SP jet with a flat floor that is in the same size range as the XLS (they call it the "wide light"). Anyway, if they get that to market, it should be a game changer. If they deliver what they are aiming for, I might just sell the Phenom 300 and get on board!
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 04 Jun 2015, 19:09 |
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Joined: 05/18/15 Posts: 16 Post Likes: +18 Location: Ames, Iowa
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
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Wondering if anyone knows if Sierra Industries has plans to upgrade the Citation V with Williams engines similar to what they have done on some of the other Citation models? This upgrade would make a Citation V approaching overhaul a pretty compelling bargain.
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 04 Jun 2015, 19:23 |
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Joined: 08/18/13 Posts: 1152 Post Likes: +770
Aircraft: 737
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2 mil for that upgrade- it's awesome, but that's a lot of dough to put into an old bird.
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Post subject: Re: I think I'm going to move up to a Citation V or Ultra Posted: 04 Jun 2015, 21:21 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 284 Post Likes: +49 Location: TX, GA
Aircraft: F33A Phenom 300E CJ4
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Username Protected wrote: Wondering if anyone knows if Sierra Industries has plans to upgrade the Citation V with Williams engines similar to what they have done on some of the other Citation models? This upgrade would make a Citation V approaching overhaul a pretty compelling bargain. I asked them this a while back and they didn't seem interested in doing it. It would probably be cheaper to just buy an Encore anyway.
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