You guys can do better than that in range, but you have itchy throttle fingers and like to pour on the coals and play big spenders!

I show 1800nm with VFR reserves in POH totally possible in the P180 if you just give it up a bit. If it saves a stop, it's gonna be faster anyway.

FL390, 195pph/side, doing 297kts. Yeah, you got to get up there, but you get it back on the way down. That would be a no-reserve range of 2200nm+. With healthy reserves at that FF, 1800nm totally possible.

In fairness my 10 knot advantage is probably due to a brand new paint job in which I beat the shop to death to get things absolutely as smooth as possible, a normally light load and I run 800 degrees..

Assuming a 1000nm flight with Jon's numbers and ignoring climb/descent math, that would be around (1000/365=) 2.7 hours of flying at 570 pph.

With Adam's max efficiency book numbers he shared, that is (1000/297=) 3.4 hours of flying at 390 pph.

Assuming a $650k overhaul cost/engine ==> $1.3M total
$1.3M / 3600 hr TBO = $361/hr engine reserve

And assuming Jet-A at $4/gal = $0.60/lb

Fly fast: 1,539 lb fuel ($923) + 2.7 hr reserve ($975) = ~$1.9k
Fly slow: 1,326 lb fuel ($795) + 3.4 hr reserve ($1,227) = ~$2.0k

That's basically a wash. Wild how close it is! So to Adam's point, you really are just deciding which is the most time efficient since the cost aspect is moot.

Airframe hours also cost something, too.

If flying slowly saves a fuel stop, a cycle, then it starts to make more sense.

Mike C.

You do you, but that is assuming some damn skinny reserves, plus optimism on getting optimal climbs and descents vs real world ATC step ups and downs.


It depends a little on how fast you can stop, but often this is not the case. Into headwinds is when you really want the range. Anthony does this all the time, and the few times I’ve done it it’s true as well - slow and efficient (FL380-FL400) into headwinds is often slower than fast and low (FL280-300) into headwinds, even including the stop. You go that much faster, albeit you burn more fuel and have a cycle in the latter case.

The headwind gradient from fl280 to fl400 often is what gets you and makes flying low and fast make so much sense.

Plus, I really don’t like my ground speed ever starting with a 2. I fly into the wind at 392kts all the time at fl280. Rare day for wind to be over 92 at that altitude!

The jets benefit from the wind tail off at FL450. That’s great for ground speed.

Are you p180 drivers seeing ATC handling the Piaggio like a turboprop or do they bunch you in with jets?

It gets a little old sometimes when you're sent down to the depths early to get below jet arrivals and jet's are either 1. not there, 2. a citation going about as fast as you are (then slows to ref 10 miles out)

It’s more jet like that what I got in mu2 but still not the full jet arrivals.

Going to LA from Denver I get much better outing than I got in mu2. Flying into Denver, it’s the same.

I echo Anthony's experience - sometimes you get a jet arrival, sometimes not. I got the OHSEA3 going into KSNA a week or so ago. But I get the OLM2 going into KBFI all the time, and sometimes they assign me the jet crossing altitudes and sometimes the turboprop altitudes. The P180 would do better on jet arrivals if it had a Vne of 280 KIAS instead of 260 KIAS.

I echo Anthony's experience