Multiple questions here:

-Which models of 210s from the factory offered FIKI as an option? Just P? And any specific model or year range they did or didn’t offer? How about T?

-Has anyone offered aftermarket TKS that makes one FIKI?

-Does a Horton STOL or Flint tip tank mod negate the factory FIKI?

I know these are very specific questions that very few people know the answer to but I figured it was worth a shot asking here.

both the T and P210 could be FIKI from the factory if all the equipment specified was installed. There were serial numbers FIKI started at if properly equipped but I no longer have a P210 maintenance manual to tell you what these serial numbers were, maybe 225 for the P210?? After market FIKI TKS was also available for those models as well. Tip tanks were not tested in icing and have a pretty big, unprotected surface and so invalidate FIKI approval as I understand it. I don't know about Horton STOL leading edges.

Not sure the reason behind your question, but the mention of the P210 brings back a memory.

Richard Collins, one of the wisest old pelicans in Flying magazine’s heyday, flew a P210 for 9000 hours and 30 years. He called FIKI certification for light aircraft “madness”.

https://www.flyingmag.com/safety-weather-madness-icing/

He discusses the 210 series and certification status as well as ice performance in the article above

Flight Ice developed an STC to turn CAVs inadvertent TKS install into a FIKI install. I’m quickly forgetting all that I once knew about the specs, but I believe anything from 210L and on was eligible. Kalitta sold the FIKI STC to CAV ~2 years ago. I had the displeasure of having to remove a STOL kit from a T210 in order to install the TKS panels. Added a lot of labor. I wouldn’t recommend it.

About 1/4 of my total hours are in T210, about half of my total in TBM. I agree with Richard.

I would say the word FIKI for the 210, fools you.

The FIKI 210s vs. the non FIKI 210s are more or less the same, except for a longer windshield hotplate and dual vacuum pumps(some have dual alternators too).

The FIKIs ability to break ice is no better than the non-FIKI booted versions.
So dont let the FIKI approval lead you into thinking you should depart into any know icing conditions. The best the boots can do is help you penetrate areas of ice. Or at least escape from it.
After working several P210s over the last 11 years, my experience is that most aircraft have de-ice systems working way below their designed capability(boots).

I recently refurbished a P210, and more or less had to replace all the plumbing going to the sequencing valves. If that part of the system is not 100% tight, your system will be sub standard in breaking away any ice.
It should hold at least 15psi during a pressure test.

Boots themselves need regular testing for pinholes leaks.

The valves need regular cleaning, and is an item that most mechanics hardly touch during annual inspections.


I personally fly a P210 and are OK with flying on days where I know there could be some ice
But only if I know I have a way out (mostly above freezing above ground level).
Crossing the Alps is something I think twice about in the winter unless there is a clear path.

Please do not let the wording FIKI trick you into thinking you are ok in flying into any known icing.
I know a lot look into the legal side of FIKI in front of the FAA, but if that is the issue, you probably should delay your flight until conditions dictate just areas of light ice.

Whatever you choose to do, the de-ice systems must be refurbished so that it performs a 100%

As a follow on for those flying P210 or T210’s with the TKS mod? Curious if it’s really a game changer in ice compared to boots and whether corrosion has been an issue. I’ve been kicking the tires on P210s the last few months and would love to get more feedback. The Cessna forums are pretty quiet.

I have no experience with TKS on a 210, but 3500hrs in booted ones in the Pacific Northwest. The best P210 in icing is the '83 model and the R models because those planes had dual 400 series vacuum pumps, both plumbed into the boots. The earlier FIKI 210s only had one pump going to the boots, the other smaller one was just for the instruments. Having twice the air supply made for snappier boot inflation and better ice shedding in my experience. That said, the best way to deal with icing is good climb performance and a P210 isn't an especially good climber at 120KIAS to keep CHTs under control. Any ice accumulation makes this worse and because of ice around the cooling air inlets at the front of the nose bowls, the engine runs hotter if you have any significant ice accumulation there. Another issue is the tops of a cumulus layer tend to be one of the worst places for ice accumulation and all of these factors can conspire to prevent you from being able to climb to ice free air if the icing layer you were trying to outclimb was too thick or led to too rapid an accumulation killing your climb capability. Another issue is poor vacuum pump reliability. They fail with no warning and more than half the vacuum pump failures I experienced were at the time of boot inflation due to the additional stress that put on those pumps. All that said, you have to choose your battles wisely and take action at the first sign of ice accumulation and have a solid plan to get out of icing conditions quickly. You really don't have very wide margins in any FIKI piston single in my opinion.

I will just add some comments to what Jeff said.

The P210 is an amazing performer vs what they cost.
BUT, if you want to have a machine that should work like intended, there is normally a lot of work ahead.

To be the best equipped for bad conditions, I refurbish my P210s to be as cool as possible.
This is no easy task. I'm still learning from a real expert, but his magic with the baffles really get the CHT down so that I dont have to trade too much airspeed for cooling.
Preserving that energy for climb.

I never worked with the dual vacuum pump system, but its definitely the better option.
However, after refurbishing the plumbing in my current P210(with a built in pressure gauge), I got up to 25psi to the boots. Almost to the limit of how much they should have.
The way they inflate is amazing.

However, I'm relying on 1 pump on the earlier versions of the P210(pre 1982).
What I have found in the past, is that if any of the sequencing valves(2 wing,1 tail) are not cleaned, they can get stuck in an intermediate pressure-vacuum position.
When this happens, the pump will eat its own pressured air, and the chance of failure/wear is multiplied.
Once again, the maintenance of the de-ice system is important during annual or ahead of the winter season.

The P210, with functioning pressurisation, boots, GAMIs for LOP and propper baffles for cooling, is a great aircraft.

Unfortunately most P210s are a project in some sort or form.
You pay now, or you pay later.
A proper prebuy is imperative........

I flew a 1985 P20R for 6 years - great airplane!

It had dual pumps for the boots. I did experience a pump failure as well as some issues with the valves in the boots. It is important to have a mechanic who understands these systems. Although my plane was designated FIKI, I did not believe it was good for extended operation in icing conditions. Going through a layer or encountering some mild to moderate icing was OK, but I was looking for a way out. I did experience some moderate icing at 17,000' and observed a pretty substantial loss of airspeed. The cloud layer was only about 1500' below me. It was a non event, but I did not want to be in those icing conditions any longer.

I flew a 2008 Cirrus SR22 TN for another 5 years. It had the non FIKI TKS system. I felt like it handled icing better. Of course I was prepared for entering icing conditions and "wet the wings" prior to entering. I did have one situation where I ran out of TKS fluid and had to reroute my flight.

Both systems have their pluses and minuses. I preferred the booted system, but was aware of it's limitations.

Just another note about vacuum pumps and P210s. There is an AD which says any booted 210 either has to have a dual vacuum pump setup, or a backup electric artificial horizon. Most of the ones in the US probably have dual pumps, either added later or from the factory. All the FIKI 210s had dual pumps. As I said earlier, the '83 and later is the best setup due to the two large pumps, both supplying the boots. Since I never was trusting of vacuum pumps, I added an electric artificial horizon to each of my P210s. Later P210s also had the possibility of dual alternators, another good option to have since the single 95amp alternator in P210s runs hot and isn't the most reliable thing either. I carried a spare vacuum pump and alternator in my first two P210s (booted but not FIKI'78 and '81FIKI models). I did have to replace an alternator in my '83FIKI plane on the road, fortunately one was easily obtainable back then. I agree with Espen that for the money a P210 is pretty hard to beat and it is the least expensive pressurized plane to operate, but it is not an all-weather plane and you do have to pick your battles wisely with icing. Sometimes waiting a day solves problems. If you have to make a schedule, that is what turbine equipment is for, and that doesn't always work either in my experience. It gives you more capability and much more robust systems, but that comes at a cost.

Wow I should have known better….. I didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on the airplane. I didn’t say I was looking at buying one. I didn’t say I was a low time pilot and needed input on whether I should fly a 210 in ice.

For a reason related to none of those items I asked if anyone knew more about Cessna years/serial numbers etc that were or weren’t FIKI. If anyone has any information on that I’d really appreciate it. Really only one or two people out of 10 replies discussed that.

Daniel, get a hold of the P210 maintenance manual. It lists the serial numbers and equipment required for a P210 to be FIKI with the boot system. The manual is available online. I am not home right now but have a copy on my home computer.

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_D ... 8-2-13.pdf

I’m kinda glad you asked. I enjoyed reading the responses.

Great write up, Espen.

The more you dig into the numbers, especially stacked up against something like a PA-46, it’s really hard to beat the P210. I’ve been almost exclusively looking at the Vitatoe TN550 conversions, and it honestly transforms the airplane into something else entirely.

Seeing 212 KTAS on 17.3 GPH up at FL220 is just phenomenal. That puts it within 10 knots of the Silver Eagle, while burning 7 gallons less per hour. That’s a massive delta in efficiency for essentially the same mission profile.