BeechTalk - BT - A tale of two workhorses Citation V vs King Air 350

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Jun 2025, 23:53

Yes it it is stupid. And King Air power control cables never brake anyway. There may be some liability concerns that if they change it they are admitting fault. Which is even more stupid.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Jun 2025, 00:56

Username Protected wrote:

Yes it it is stupid. And King Air power control cables never brake anyway. There may be some liability concerns that if they change it they are admitting fault. Which is even more stupid.

Only the brake cables brake.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Jun 2025, 03:59

Username Protected wrote:

Yes it it is stupid. And King Air power control cables never brake anyway. There may be some liability concerns that if they change it they are admitting fault. Which is even more stupid.

Only the brake cables brake.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Jun 2025, 07:04

Username Protected wrote:

Ironically, if Pratt had placed the fuel controllers on the other side of the engines, the engine affected would be the non-critical engine.

Simpler solution, equal length cables.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Jun 2025, 08:18

Username Protected wrote:

Flaps are not typically used for takeoffs in King Airs. There is only minimal benefits on short runways.

Not a pilot, and certainly not a King Air pilot, but I thought approach flaps were normal for take-off?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Jun 2025, 23:55

Username Protected wrote:

I left out of a 3,480' runway in Florida (KLNA) on Saturday with 4 adults and 2 kids, and 300lbs of bags in a Citation. We came nonstop to KMWL (1,030miles) in 3:00 hours. Will your plane do that?

Yes, MY PIAGGIO near full gross in 30C temps would rotate just under 3,000 feet and complete trip in about 3hr and 20 minutes (Dallas STAR taking 10 more mins) at FL360 burning about 2,000 pounds.

I fly into and out of LNA when going to Flight Safety sometimes and would NEVER depart that short a runway that heavy.
I would depart West Palm or Stuart.

With my customer base NOT having a jet is a plus.
390 knots FL300 yessirreeBOB
Having a 5'10" cabin and small wing that laughs at turbulence Challengers are complaining about...another plus X TU
6,000 foot cabin round 39,000 feet- one more plus
Last week burning 78 gph while cruising 360 True at FL400 (yes, I was light) and grinning-another plus.
reverse thrust-

fully acrobatic yep :liar:

bleed air anti ice makes me laugh every time I see ice on wing- 1 more
full stand up lav-plus

OH, wait for it.....nothing ever breaks.
I am so SO glad most were afraid of this airplane and I got it for 70% discount. :woot:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2025, 07:30

Chip mentioned the new auto throttles fixing the risk of Kingair PLM.

In a post a few months ago it was mentioned that if the friction locks are not set correctly the new Autothrottles will hunt up and down 500 ft lbs on approach to land. Not ideal.

Seems like we have made a new problem on top of an old one. Or a new problem to not admit there was a problem with the old "Fix".

I remember having a set of throttles and mixture cables on my 421 that were getting sloppy. You had to move the levers a ways to get any response (multiple clicks on the mixtures). So major project we changed all the cables to new McFarlane PMA cables.

Sadly I found the internal slop was worse after the new cables were installed than with the original cables I had removed. Springs might have helped but none were called for. Plus with only one friction lock for all levers on a Cessna quadrant it would not have worked out to have return springs.

Funny story about PLM. I was taking off with a load of jumpers in the old Twin Beech. As I started the takeoff roll it was about time for the tail to come up and I found I did not have enough down trim rolled in. (No indicator and 11 instead of 8 fat jumpers). So I let go of the throttles to reach down below/behind the seat to the elevator trim wheel. The worn friction lock allowed the left throttle to fall back at just that moment. 50ft wide X 2000ft runway and big crosswind from the left... So with left arm locked holding full down elevator I was trying to ease the throttle back up and get the lock a bit tighter to be able to reach down to the trim again. With the high noise level the jumper next to me just was looking like "What is this idiot doing"? Throttle, Push lock, trim, throttle, Push lock, trim. GEAR! Throttles props Trim getting closer. I was a busy one armed man for a bit.

That was way worse than times when I had the left lever rolling back after takeoff in the 90 or 200 BUT I knew what the problem was. If coming down from Jets and a person is used to taking their hand off the power levers at V1. It's a bad thing in a Kingair. You need a hand on the power levers to catch if one starts to get too high ITT or torque rise with ram air. It's not much but just a little tweak back sometimes is needed. Pilot stuff. No different than a Twin turbo Cessna.

If your aware what MIGHT happen then you are spring loaded to look for this if it does happen.
But until the sims are rigged to train for the possibility and how the rudder boost feels in the pedals then we won't fix it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2025, 07:50

As far as I know the sims still don’t even have springs on the power levers.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2025, 08:57

Username Protected wrote:

I remember having a set of throttles and mixture cables on my 421 that were getting sloppy. You had to move the levers a ways to get any response (multiple clicks on the mixtures). So major project we changed all the cables to new McFarlane PMA cables.

Sadly I found the internal slop was worse after the new cables were installed than with the original cables I had removed. Springs might have helped but none were called for. Plus with only one friction lock for all levers on a Cessna quadrant it would not have worked out to have return springs.

2-3 clicks of hysteresis is "normal". It's annoying, but the solution is to only adjust in one direction (lean). If you undershoot, you have to go back up a few clicks and then try again. Trick is getting the friction lock tight enough that you can find spots in-between detents.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2025, 09:30

Username Protected wrote:

My buddy Mike likes to turn every thread into a Citation V thread, I suggested he start this thread, but he’s more of a follower than a leader… so here it goes.

(standby for criticism of how many threads I start)

There are two aircraft that have very similar passenger and range capabilities, the Citation V and the King Air 350, I actually prefer the V over the 350, I think it is more airplane for the money, assuming it fits your mission and you’re ok with the slightly higher operating cost, but to defer to Mike C., I’ll take the weaker position in this debate and defend the King Air.

LOL the Piaggio beats both in comfort, economy, quietness and looks (just sayin')

Looks? There is always a guy around that likes fat chicks, I’ve heard they need love too.
Carry on! :rofl:

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Jun 2025, 22:48

Dan that’s why you fly an Error Commander.

Great hearing from you… remember the slide at Cancun a few years back on the layover? Philip and his POS car? Lol