banner
banner

22 Jun 2025, 11:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Garmin International (Banner)



Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2024, 20:20 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 14352
Post Likes: +16322
Company: Midwest Chemtrails, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205

_________________
Holoholo …


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2024, 08:59 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 03/24/19
Posts: 1457
Post Likes: +2049
Location: Ontario, Canada
Aircraft: Glasair Sportsman
It takes a looooong time to build hours on short winch launch operations, but that kick in the pants from the launch makes it all worthwhile!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2024, 13:03 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/11/09
Posts: 1274
Post Likes: +527
Company: Torrence AeroMarine A&P IA
Location: Pueblo, Colorado (KPUB)
Username Protected wrote:
It takes a looooong time to build hours on short winch launch operations, but that kick in the pants from the launch makes it all worthwhile!


Mark Wild ran the Black Forest Glider Port just north of Colorado Springs. They were a winch operation. Lots of diamond flights were made out of there. Good thermals and a strong mountain wave just a few miles to the west made for good long flights.

After Mark sold the field and operation in about mid to late 1980s it did not last long. The real estate developers snatched it up and the glider port moved to Kelly Air Park. A real shame, It was a beautiful location and great place to soar.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2024, 13:35 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 14352
Post Likes: +16322
Company: Midwest Chemtrails, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
Username Protected wrote:
It takes a looooong time to build hours on short winch launch operations, but that kick in the pants from the launch makes it all worthwhile!

Once upon a time I wanted my Aero-Tow Only limitation removed. I rode through the first/demo winch launch <GULP> decided that I was just fine the limitation.

_________________
Holoholo …


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2024, 14:54 
Online




User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 35041
Post Likes: +13544
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
It takes a looooong time to build hours on short winch launch operations, but that kick in the pants from the launch makes it all worthwhile!

Once upon a time I wanted my Aero-Tow Only limitation removed. I rode through the first/demo winch launch <GULP> decided that I was just fine the limitation.

If I ever get back to soaring I want to do that. To me the only scary part was how you could easily pull the wings off if you weren't careful. "Theoretically" the fusable link would break first but that's assuming it was the correct one for your weight.
_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2024, 22:02 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/26/16
Posts: 306
Post Likes: +233
Aircraft: G36
I would love that


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2024, 23:22 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 14352
Post Likes: +16322
Company: Midwest Chemtrails, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
For me, the worst part was the steep pitch angle so close to the ground. Essentially flying a circumferential arc of decreasing radius. If the rope broke, I am not certain that there was sufficient energy to get the nose far enough down, quickly enough, to stop bleeding energy.

Yeah, looking at the wingtip flex on the olde Blanik was another lump-in-throat moment. I think it was the next year that most (all?) the Blaniks were grounded (due to wing issues?).

I would love to try that open cockpit glider.

_________________
Holoholo …


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2024, 08:30 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 9164
Post Likes: +6917
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
As for building hours… my favorite uncle was an active glider instructor. It took him like 20 years to get 100 hours of glider time.

There was a season when his club didn’t have a tow plane and did auto tows instead. The glider had similar performance to the barge in that video. I can attest that there’s plenty of energy to get the nose down if needed.

The guy driving the tow vehicle was apparently a guy whose enthusiasm outpaced his intellect. I flew the first auto tow of the day with my uncle in the backseat. The driver had neglected to refuel the vehicle, and we were about halfway into our tow when the engine died. We were nose up at least 30°, about 500 feet, maybe 1200’ of runway remaining, and only 10 kn above the stall when we noticed that we couldn’t feel the tug and our airspeed was decaying. It doesn’t take a hard push to get the nose to come down in that situation.

My uncle was a master of these old gliders, and was able to do S turns to bring us to a smooth landing on the remaining runway. I was maybe 15 and too naïve to understand how dangerous that situation was until well after we were on the ground.


Last edited on 28 Oct 2024, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2024, 14:41 
Online




User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 35041
Post Likes: +13544
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
For me, the worst part was the steep pitch angle so close to the ground. Essentially flying a circumferential arc of decreasing radius. If the rope broke, I am not certain that there was sufficient energy to get the nose far enough down, quickly enough, to stop bleeding energy.

Yeah, looking at the wingtip flex on the olde Blanik was another lump-in-throat moment. I think it was the next year that most (all?) the Blaniks were grounded (due to wing issues?).

I would love to try that open cockpit glider.

I don't think there's any issue with losing energy and stalling close to the ground on a winch launch. Sailplanes just don't decelerate that quickly unless you open the boards. You'd definitely want to pitch over rapidly but only to level flight and that wouldn't take more than a second or two plus, as long as you're unloading the wing the stall speed goes to near zero.

Also a rope break as you're climbing on a winch would be so obvious you would notice right away even if you were focused on something else (which you won't be either).

_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2024, 16:51 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 9164
Post Likes: +6917
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
Username Protected wrote:
You'd definitely want to pitch over rapidly but only to level flight and that wouldn't take more than a second or two plus, as long as you're unloading the wing the stall speed goes to near zero.


You don't even need to push, just don't hold the nose up. With the lack of thrust from the rope, the nose will come down on it's own as the glider decelerates. It won't stall.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Slingsby T-21 Glider “The Barge”
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2024, 17:33 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/03/15
Posts: 117
Post Likes: +125
Aircraft: King Air
Wow... thanks for posting this.

Summer of 1990, I joined the British Gliding Club at RAF Upwood in East Anglia, near where I was stationed. Everything there was done via winch launch.

I only flew with them for a few months, but they had a T-21 and I got a few flights in it.

They had an instructor there that flew troop gliders in the war. The guy was amazing and could find lift even in the worst conditions.

Maybe I'll go get my glider rating... finally.

Thanks for the memory.

Edit: looks like they still exist. https://www.nvgc.org.uk/


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 



PWI, Inc. (Banner)

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025

.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.b-kool-85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.garmin-85x200-2021-11-22.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.Elite-85x50.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.KingAirMaint85_50.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.mcfarlane-85x50.png.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.performanceaero-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.ocraviation-85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.holymicro-85x50.jpg.
.KalAir_Black.jpg.
.aerox_85x100.png.
.rnp.85x50.png.