Ask our members:

https://www.piperapacheclub.com/

The Apache with its conical/straight mount engines have an excess amount of vibration throughout the airframe. Sometimes referred to as the Piper Acracky. The baffles and cowlings are especially prone to work hardening from vibration and usually have patches on top of patches (also knicknamed Piper Apatchy). They have a lot more ADs than the Aztec. Most have the updated forged tail fittings that does away with a very labor intensive recurring dye penetrant inspection.

The flaps and elevators are also susceptible to cracking as are the fuselage skins. When you are flying one if your arm is against the side panel you can feel the high frequency vibrations and it will give you sailors itch. The Miller & Seguin 180HP conversions solved the vibration issue with dynafocal engine mounts. There are a lot of worthwhile stand alone STCs developed from those two companies. Some of the more desirable ones are wing/nacelle root fairings, dorsal fin, square tips (with or without fuel), tail fairings, enlarged square tail, fully enclosed clam shell gear doors, long nose, one piece and sloped windshield and of course all are eligible and perform well with auto fuel STC.

Some of the harder parts to find are the induction boots, cowls, baffles, elevators and airboxes. I have parted out many and have most of the above in stock.

Plan on upgrading to Steve’s Gascolators if not already accomplished. They are especially susceptible to water in fuel and should have Eagle fuel drains in the inboard fuel cells. I can’t believe it is not an AD. Apaches have crashed due to undrainable water in the fuel more than any other causes.

The landing gear is robust and can be upgraded with Aztec drag braces.

Fun affordable classic. The 160HP engines and compact hub prop conversion is a very big plus.

Thank you Norman for that write up. Will be be try helpful

Glenn, I’ve sent my request to join

Nice old timer Apache arrived in good UK LoIFR.

The great thing about the Apache is it makes its sibling the Aztec feel like a hot rod

download/file.php?mode=view&id=446249

Is it me but does the Cirrus SF50 cabin have some Apache genealogy

Just finished installing Alpha aviation shoulder harnesses (inertia reel) in the Aztec. A couple weeks ago removed the old visors and replaced with new Rosen visors. New carpet and headliner have been ordered. Micro VG kit ordered.

That’s the start of my tinker list. Bigger avionics ideas / work is going to be a bit while I decide what I really need / want.

Did you get the multiu? Howd it go?

Did you get the multiu? Howd it go?

I just had an Apache come in the shop. Not an annual but owner called and said it just needed things. I used to work on it back about 2017-18 but have not seen it since 2021. I gave the owner a list then including that it needed an engine overhaul (age leaks, low compression, very dark oil, last owner ran car oil etc). last time.

It was a very low time always hangared airframe 1100 total time since new. The same second owner since 1968 but most of the hours were put on before that. It was hangared but sat most of its life up on jacks with fish tank bubbler pumps blowing up the breathers and dipsticks loose. Original bladders in the wings. Actually almost everything was original other than a Geronimo tail and short fiberglass nose. Square wing tips.

Sadly now I see lots of neglect and lack of MX. And they fly it a lot.

It's now at 2500 hrs on left engine since new in 1961 never overhauled. Right was O/H back in 1981.

Kid flying it said right engine quit twice on two takeoffs and he got around the pattern and back down. He also said the right main fuel gauge did not work .

He said if he forced the selector towards main it would run so he had been flying it that way.

I pretty much yelled at him and said you're going to kill yourself. The gauge shows if the selector bar moves far enough to put the main or aux valve into a position where it will flow gas. No gauge reading expect it did not fully move into position to feed fuel. Even this is not fool proof because the wire can slip to the selectors but it's a good indicator things are not right.

Lack of lubrication was the problem in the cables from the selector handle to the gauge switch bar in the belly. Easy to inspect and see with belly panel off. Or feel when moving them.

Then he says that the Garmin GTN725 in the panel keeps losing GPS signal and then he loses the G5 he has for the only primary horizon. Avionics shop never installed the G5 antenna to use the internal GPS so it relies on the GTN unit to supply GPS info. Lose the GTN lose the horizon also. No back up horizon is installed only the Mitchell Autopilot turn and bank.

Kid said he kept coming out of the clouds in crazy attitudes.... But kept filing IFR. I saw the track when he flew it in and wondered what the hard hook turns were.

Vacuum DG failed a long time ago. They just kept flying.

Right Mitchell tach is about 250 RPM off the left Mitchell tach when run up. Hour meter much less on the slow one. He said it always sounded out of synch.

I was looking at the left cowl and it was worn through with a hole. Baffle plenum had failed and the broken edges wore through the cowl. Nobody thought to look to see what was happening? It appears to have been a long term problem. Many many other baffle cracks. Exhaust gasket long blown has eroded one cylinder port.

Lower nacelles rubber edging is gone so the nacelle wore through the skins and extrusion behind the gear connecting to the rear spar.

They have been flying a long time with no right MP. Manifold pressure copper tube on cylinder is broken off. The kicker is a mechanic just changed the starter on that engine so the cowl was off.

Nose gear steering stop is broken off but they keep on flying so the elevators have put many many dings in the rudder skin to the point of making holes in the skins each side of the rudder. It will need to be reskinned.

Prop governor rod end failed so it's rattling around between the large area washer and the governor arm. First I have seen one fail this way even through we have been told it can happen for years.

Couple gallons of degreaser and WD40 trying to degrease this thing. 100hrs since last oil change.... Seems like that has been the norm for it. Old engine is leaking from case halves and a mess. Nacelles inside just full of oil and grease. Augmentors are totally coated up with lead inside. Plugs full of lead.

Right aileron inboard hinge bearing is locking up with rust coming out from lack of lubrication. But then looking further the outboard aileron hinge is broken clean off. Nobody noticed.... ??
Moving the yoke there is loud clicking crashing from right aileron.

Kid flying it had no clue there was a standby electric hydraulic pump in the left nacelle, Also no clue about the aileron trim kit with pilot side crank driving screw and springs forward of copilot rudder pedals on the floor. which was stuck full left. Manual with supplements for these is in the panel drawer.

He had no idea how to drain fuel from the tanks to check for water. Said he flipped the selector from main to aux and back before each takeoff to see if it would run... No drains in the bladders.

Rudder trim a mess. wear, rust etc. Not used for training this is a corporate airplane believe it or not. Last corporate Apache I think. Owner has a Kingair 200 also.

They smoke in the Apache. Ash trays stuffed full of cigarette butts and glass with notch on gimbal RAM mount to the angle tubes at windshield for cigars to rest. .

Lucky they are not a smoking hole in the ground. The sad part is if any of these things caused an accident it just gives Apaches more of a reputation but it is all so avoidable.

Now he said they lost their hangar so it is tied outside in NJ. ugh.

Trying to get ahold of someone on the Piper Apache club website/forum, anyone have a contact? Just picked up an Apache

contact info is at the bottom of the page:
https://www.piperapacheclub.com/

John is busy with a multi student at his Wisconsin location. Give him some time to respond.

I know the former pilot of that airplane. I dont believe it has ice protection. The owner fired him because he cancelled flights on the owner because he told him we cant launch into known icing conditions. Its based at my home airport.

Yep that is probably the one. yes only has heated pitot tube. has the underwing tube type fuel tank vents also.

The original idea was he went back and forth to PA each weekend with the Kingair 200 and it was pretty expensive. The Apache only took 20 min longer for the same trip in good conditions but much cheaper.

So use the Apache on good days and Kingair if bad. That didn't happen so they were trying to fly the Apache all weather on trips . Way more than it was supposed to be doing.

He needs a Navajo.

Wow, Charlie.

I’ve seen some crazy stuff and heard about even more but that’s right up there near the top.

It is sometimes astonishing…..the level of ignorance and the attitudes out there. I avoid guys and airplanes like these as if they were the plague bc they are.

Just picked up 1968 D turbo in California, flew it back to Florida. 13.5 to 15.5 most of the time. Trued at 180-190 knots. About 10-15 knots faster than the same model I had several years ago.. plane sat quite a while, took several days of fixing things that supposedly were ready to go. After finally getting it airworthy (even though had a fresh “annual”) it did very vell, except for a few oil seeps/leaks that will be addressed now it’s home. Used or seeped about a quart every 3-4 hours. Only thing that was a bit more troublesome, was the left turbo didn’t shut off when switch was turned off. Tried several times to cycle it, wouldn’t turn off, it was the last leg, and in a few days I’m going to do an oil change and start troubleshooting. If anyone has had this, I could use some guidance.. I’m looking for an Aztec familiar maintenance place in SW Florida if anyone has a good recommendation .. don’t mind traveling a bit, and I have a good list of upgrades planned. Fun plane, just flew it 13 hours over a few days.. SoCal to South Florida. Has original panel, and I just bought a few screens , radios, engine monitor, etc to upgrade, so could use an avionics shop recommendation as well.

I'm curious about and never heard of an aircraft turbocharging system that is electrically controlled (i.e. with an on-off switch). Who made it and is it still supported? Is the boost regulated electronically? Are your engines turbonormalized or so they boost above 30 inHg MAP?