Someone made the comment on another thread, that was some version of;

"For whatever reason, Chip doesn't like older airplanes"

That really isn't true, but I understand why people would think that based on what I post here, so I thought I'd clear the air!

I LOVE OLDER AIRPLANES!

I HATE OLDER AIRPLANE DEALS.

If I was to buy a piston twin today, it would either be a Twin Commanche or a Shrike Commander!

Old Cessna 182's... love them.

King Airs... the E, F90 and 300 are my favorites.

Citation... Citation V is the way to go. I even have a soft spot for 501's, shocking right!

Do I like buying 70's or 80's vintage King Airs and Citations?

NO!

But it isn't the airplanes, it's the market / seller / deal.

I want my client to get a good airplane, pay a fair price, get a good prepurchase inspection and have all required maintenance done at the Seller's expense.

Too many sellers of older airplanes have chosen to defer maintenance, want no prebuy and they are resistant to paying for needed repairs.

You just cater to a different crowd (and tax bracket) than most of us fall into , nothing wrong with that.

What percentage of your customers are pilots? Pretty low I'd bet.

Why pay for maintenance today that can be put off until tomorrow?

Not really, granted yesterday's $800k King Air is now $1.5M

We cater to the turbine crowd and yes, $1M is kinda the entry point there, but in the turbine world we are definitely not the high end!

We have five clients right now, three out of five ARE pilots.

We have closed four airplanes so far this year, all four are pilots.

When I get a chance, I'll look at our client list and get you something accurate, but it's probably more than 50% that are pilots. (remember we do a LOT of TBM's and Mustangs)

Causal observation; planes old or new don’t care what tax bracket you’re in.

Casual observation: service centers don't care about what tax bracket you are in.

There are ways to keep a Citation for a lot less than service center prices.

Mike C.

Sounds like the SE piston market also !

I had a chance to run a quick tally of our clients over the last 9 years...

76% of our clients are owner pilots.

As the comment source for this thread I'll offer up one or two points of refutation:

-I get your point above, but as I've said elsewhere on here before if you've seen one KA90 you've seen one. Painting everything pre-Clinton era as the domain of the CSOB's doesn't do the market justice. Most flying owners would take a Garminized 1985 C90A with Blackhawks over a bone stock 1995 C90B; you're the expert on relative values, I'm just making a point on what i believe are preferences within the owner flown community.

-Comparing the C90 market to the broader Twin TP market reveals the relative luxury of being able to choose newer. No one complains that the 441 they went in to contract on is from 1980. In 20 years no one is going to complain that their C510 is 35 years old.

At the end of the day it's all about price. If the price is cheap enough, the seller doesn't want to mess with flying airplanes halfway across the country, having them torn apart by a shop they don't know, and potentially being abandoned by a buyer with an airplane in pieces. So much of this stuff is a judgement call - as a seller, why would I open myself up to some yahoo, 2 states away, that I don't know, declaring my airplane unairworthy. Now I've got to fly my mechanic over there to override the yahoo and/or get a ferry permit from the FSDO. It's just a huge mess. Not to mention the buyer of a $600k Citation is more likely to get cold feet (thought they could stretch into a jet but then not really be able to swing it, spouse objects, etc.) than a corporation buying a CJ4, Phenom, etc. Not saying that would apply to your customers as I trust you have very detailed conversations about cost to own, figuring out the best aircraft for them, etc. but speaking more generally of a seller's mindset.

If I'm selling a multi-million dollar CJ4, by all means, make sure it is perfect. But with a 45 year old $600k Citation, you just need to expect there will be gremlins. Borescope the engines to make sure all the blades are there, check the usual spots for corrosion and hydraulic leaks, fill it up with fuel and let it sit overnight to check for leaks, do a test flight with someone that has flown a number of the breed and can quickly tell if the performance is in the ballpark and do systems checks (pressurization, etc), and call it a day. Heck my type rating instructor could do the last part. I remember him commenting when we were doing emergency descents how well my cabin held pressure with the engines at idle. It's that kind of stuff that really matters. Conversely, I have a very slow O2 leak somewhere between the bottle and the cabin. We could spend thousands in labor to find it, or I could just turn the valve on the top of the bottle when I park the plane. That method has been working great for almost 2 years now. Was that worth throwing a tantrum about when I was buying it? No. Will I fix it before I sell it? No.

FMPOV- Those who get stuck with a pig in a poke after purchase know not of what they looked at prior to signing on the dotted line. Doesn't matter if its a SE piston or a ME flame thrower. It happens all the time.

Anyone with a good maintenance knowledge of a particular line of airplanes can do a forensic log book exam and a visual inspection and be pretty sure of where things sit long before lots of money is spent.

Likewise a 35 year old airframe is not a new airframe and it WILL have warts
As above- It all comes down to $$$$$$
Pay me now or pay me later- your choice.

Casual observation: service centers don't care about what tax bracket you are in.

There are ways to keep a Citation for a lot less than service center prices.

Mike C.

At the end of the day it's all about price. If the price is cheap enough, the seller doesn't want to mess with flying airplanes halfway across the country, having them torn apart by a shop they don't know, and potentially being abandoned by a buyer with an airplane in pieces. So much of this stuff is a judgement call - as a seller, why would I open myself up to some yahoo, 2 states away, that I don't know, declaring my airplane unairworthy. Now I've got to fly my mechanic over there to override the yahoo and/or get a ferry permit from the FSDO. It's just a huge mess. Not to mention the buyer of a $600k Citation is more likely to get cold feet (thought they could stretch into a jet but then not really be able to swing it, spouse objects, etc.) than a corporation buying a CJ4, Phenom, etc. Not saying that would apply to your customers as I trust you have very detailed conversations about cost to own, figuring out the best aircraft for them, etc. but speaking more generally of a seller's mindset.

There are a bunch of highly qualified Citation techs across the country. It's not difficult to steer clear of the amateurs.