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Post subject: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 18 May 2024, 19:38 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3430 Post Likes: +4949 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Well, I had the opportunity to fly a new Piper M700 Fury. Much of what I will talk about is in reference to its little sister the M600. The latest and last serial number of the M600 is a very mature airframe, and this was the base platform for the M700. I would say that almost everything good from the M600 was brought forward, and some of it was upgraded in a nice way. My partner and I have over 2250 hours in multiple versions of the M600. Elise from Western, Boise, was nice enough to bring over her beautiful demo plane. Attachment: 1 (1).jpeg One of the things that stands out on the M700 is the maturity of the fit and finish. Piper gets better every year in their paint and interiors. Almost every year of the PA46 since I have been flying them, they will incorporate some subtle redesign and process improvement. Rarely is next year’s PA46 the same as the last. The M700 is no different, numerous little changes in the cabin from map lights that have been modernized, to carpet inserts designed to be more secure and durable. Attachment: 1 (2).jpeg Where the M700 really shines is performance. Piper’s second fastest production plane only bested by the Piper Cheyenne. You will see that they advertise the M700 significantly faster. Sure, it has a bigger engine, so that is easy. But with the same fuel capacity it has more range than the M600. Faster and longer range? Now that is impossible, right? Well not really. The M700 is faster, and it has a longer range, BUT not at the same time. The PT6-52A is a more powerful engine, has higher temp limits, and unlike the PT6-42A in the M600, there is no disclaimer of possibly shortening engine life by running max cruise. The max temp is 840 vs 800. So, the 301 KTAS comes with max cruise settings, and the more efficient larger airbox, redesigned intakes and giant aerodynamically maximized stacks, give the plane more power and more efficiency. In fact, when running power settings and fuel flows in the M600 in the M700, the M700 is actually faster on the same fuel flow. That is some nice engineering. The longer range is also helped by the M700’s ability to initially climb at over 3000 fpm, and 2000 fpm all the way to cruise altitude, in the thin cold efficient air. This plane advertises over 1800 nm at economy settings. So, if you need a really long range, this plane will outfly most people’s butts. Attachment: 1.jpeg This M700 beats its book numbers a little. We hit 300 KTAS at FL260 and ISA+8. Fuel flow was a miserly 335-340 pph. When we slowed to M600 fuel flows and TQ of 1195, we were seeing 266 KTAS burning 270 pph at ISA+8. So basically 1 nm per lb. of fuel. When we fooled the range rings to thinking we took off with full fuel, we could hit almost all the US, Canada, southern Alaska, and the Bahamas. Plenty of range for those bucket list trips. Max Cruise Attachment: 1 (3).jpeg At normal Cruise seeing 290 KTAS at 320 PPH, with incredible range Attachment: 1 (4).jpeg Like the M600, the high Vmo makes the descent fast and fun. Without any unusual inputs, in the descent we rolled it up to Mach 0.54 giving us a TAS of 331 knots and 374 knots over the ground, at 6 miles a minute, you can cover some serious ground. If you forget to stay ahead of the plane, the active overspeed and under speed protection will use the enhanced ESP and Auto throttle to keep you under Vmo/Mmo and above stall speed. The Autoland, automatic autopilot engagement for an out-of-control pilot, TAWS and TCAS are carried forward as one of the most advanced GA aircraft available at any price. What is hot: The aft CG issues of the M600 were improved with a slightly heavier engine, a heavier sturdier front nose gear that is also available for all M600 SN’s. A larger capacity battery which is also heavy, and a heavier starter generator, all of which address the aft CG of the M600. It still retains the 4 forward compartments where you can install ballast (weights) if needed to pull the CG forwards. The copilot seat now travels as far as the pilot seat, the O2 cabinet has been reshaped and resized. A bonus for those in the copilot seat. The systems pages are now what you would expect from a business jet, with functional diagrams, green systems are go. Performance data is calculated with the onboard weight and balance, which for a plane that can get off the ground in a little over 1000 feet. But you can pretend you are in one of the latest modern biz jets. The G3000 is loaded with almost anytime available on a G3000 platform, GWX8000 is standard, some new features like built in glide range rings that adjust with winds and altitude, performance profiles updated with winds and temps aloft as you travel, new system software with the GDL60 that allow you to check on your airplane such as fuel levels, database status, etc., anytime right from your smart phone as well as database uploads and engine parameter downloads that can use nearby WIFI or cellular data. Many little upgrades, like the nuisance alarms were addressed, such as not yelling check gear if you bring power back to idle. The oxygen level is no longer a gauge but is now on the systems page. You can select absolute or relative terrain or even merge them together like the old G1000 did. The ingress and egress is made easier by the new roomier copilot seat, and the pedestal which was shrunk to make it easier to get a leg between the pedestal and the seats. The auto throttle on the M600 is smooth, and intuitive, but the power lever control and activation on the M700 seems even smoother. The power lever movement feels more solid, but this may be true of the latest model M600’s as well. Better steering limit markings on the front gear, and a removable plastic cover that will break alerting you to an over-steer by the ground crew. Looks like that may be possible to retro to the M600 if desired. The M700 sports a newly designed rudder that really decreases the left turning tendency on takeoff and climb. Take off only requires light right rudder input, as opposed to almost feeling like you are standing on the rudder with a full power launch from a standstill in the M600. That is helpful in a plane that I am told has a higher power to weight ratio than a P51 Mustang. Well, I had to go Google, and do the math on that one, and it appears that the M700, in fact, has more power to weight than most P51 Mustangs. The acceleration on take-off, holding brakes until the auto throttle kicks in, is impressive. So impressive that my mind being in M600 mode, was behind the aircraft and I was already 6-8 knots above Vr before my brain caught up. Take off roll is just a little over 1000 feet in some conditions. The zero-fuel weight was increased on the M700, so you can trade more fuel for weight in the cabin. Lastly a lot of recurring SB’s, the need for a wing modification, some fatigue cracks noted on high use M600’s (which we are high utilizers  Has been addressed on the M700. So, a little cleaner maintenance going forward. Of course, the M700 may have its own stresses uncovered over time. The M700 still has Piper ultimate covering most maintenance and annuals for 5 years. So, everything can’t be perfect. What is possibly better on the M600. Well, the M700 loses the site glass for checking the turbine oil. That is replaced with a sensor that will CAS if the oil is getting on the low side of normal. Otherwise back to dipstick checking. The plane is heavier. There is more metal, not sure where it all is, but about 150 lbs more than the equivalent early M600’s, so the full fuel useful load is just a tad over 500 lbs, but then full fuel can take you depending on power settings 1200/1400/1800 nm. So rare to need full fuel and you can trade fuel for passengers. Well at least for now, I am looking for one in my Christmas stocking. I was told 2024 is sold out to the dealers, but motivated buyers can likely get one. The M700 closes some of the performance gap in the TBM960 and Epic. But comes in at a lower acquisition and operating cost. The operating costs are still in line with its little cousin the Piper Meridian, but with quite a bit more performance and capability. Piper has a winner here. A nice combination of cost, technology, comfort, and capability. Choosing any other aircraft is going to take a compromise in one of those factors. So, sits nicely in its own niche.
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_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 00:11 |
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Joined: 06/17/14 Posts: 5900 Post Likes: +2654 Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
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Somewhere AI will steal that post and we will find it, word for word, in a magazine! That’s an amazing PIREP!
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 07:39 |
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Joined: 05/03/12 Posts: 170 Post Likes: +19 Location: West Chester, Pa KOQN
Aircraft: A36, P46T
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Thanks for the review!
Looking forward to seeing one in person and getting an hour in one at altitude.
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 07:57 |
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Joined: 09/09/13 Posts: 519 Post Likes: +700 Location: Ballarat, Australia
Aircraft: C177rg
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Thank you for putting the effort into that fantastic post. Way out of my league, but it was really interesting reading.
I have long had a soft spot for the PA 46 series.
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 08:57 |
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Joined: 07/18/13 Posts: 6 Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: V35b, sr 22, 737
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Awesome write up Charles! Piper is really doing some great things! I really enjoyed flying the m600, however when flying from the right seat it’s definitely a tight fit for me at 6ft4. Maybe this extra room in the m700 will make all the difference in the world.
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 11:42 |
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Joined: 10/19/09 Posts: 651 Post Likes: +65 Location: La Verne, CA (KPOC)
Aircraft: TBM 850
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When I was looking at the M600 vs the TBM the M600 could not carry very much weight in the rear seats with luggage. No way to get 6 average size adults in the M600 without going aft CG. Can you get 6 180# people, 170# of bags and fly 800 miles in the M700?
_________________ Steve
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 13:26 |
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Joined: 01/07/21 Posts: 407 Post Likes: +393
Aircraft: M20J/R, Sr22, SR20
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Username Protected wrote: Well, I had the opportunity to fly a new Piper M700 Fury. Much of what I will talk about is in reference to its little sister the M600. The latest and last serial number of the M600 is a very mature airframe, and this was the base platform for the M700. I would say that almost everything good from the M600 was brought forward, and some of it was upgraded in a nice way. My partner and I have over 2250 hours in multiple versions of the M600. Elise from Western, Boise, was nice enough to bring over her beautiful demo plane. Attachment: 1 (1).jpeg One of the things that stands out on the M700 is the maturity of the fit and finish. Piper gets better every year in their paint and interiors. Almost every year of the PA46 since I have been flying them, they will incorporate some subtle redesign and process improvement. Rarely is next year’s PA46 the same as the last. The M700 is no different, numerous little changes in the cabin from map lights that have been modernized, to carpet inserts designed to be more secure and durable. Attachment: 1 (2).jpeg Where the M700 really shines is performance. Piper’s second fastest production plane only bested by the Piper Cheyenne. You will see that they advertise the M700 significantly faster. Sure, it has a bigger engine, so that is easy. But with the same fuel capacity it has more range than the M600. Faster and longer range? Now that is impossible, right? Well not really. The M700 is faster, and it has a longer range, BUT not at the same time. The PT6-52A is a more powerful engine, has higher temp limits, and unlike the PT6-42A in the M600, there is no disclaimer of possibly shortening engine life by running max cruise. The max temp is 840 vs 800. So, the 301 KTAS comes with max cruise settings, and the more efficient larger airbox, redesigned intakes and giant aerodynamically maximized stacks, give the plane more power and more efficiency. In fact, when running power settings and fuel flows in the M600 in the M700, the M700 is actually faster on the same fuel flow. That is some nice engineering. The longer range is also helped by the M700’s ability to initially climb at over 3000 fpm, and 2000 fpm all the way to cruise altitude, in the thin cold efficient air. This plane advertises over 1800 nm at economy settings. So, if you need a really long range, this plane will outfly most people’s butts. Attachment: 1.jpeg This M700 beats its book numbers a little. We hit 300 KTAS at FL260 and ISA+8. Fuel flow was a miserly 335-340 pph. When we slowed to M600 fuel flows and TQ of 1195, we were seeing 266 KTAS burning 270 pph at ISA+8. So basically 1 nm per lb. of fuel. When we fooled the range rings to thinking we took off with full fuel, we could hit almost all the US, Canada, southern Alaska, and the Bahamas. Plenty of range for those bucket list trips. Max Cruise Attachment: 1 (3).jpeg At normal Cruise seeing 290 KTAS at 320 PPH, with incredible range Attachment: 1 (4).jpeg Like the M600, the high Vmo makes the descent fast and fun. Without any unusual inputs, in the descent we rolled it up to Mach 0.54 giving us a TAS of 331 knots and 374 knots over the ground, at 6 miles a minute, you can cover some serious ground. If you forget to stay ahead of the plane, the active overspeed and under speed protection will use the enhanced ESP and Auto throttle to keep you under Vmo/Mmo and above stall speed. The Autoland, automatic autopilot engagement for an out-of-control pilot, TAWS and TCAS are carried forward as one of the most advanced GA aircraft available at any price. What is hot: The aft CG issues of the M600 were improved with a slightly heavier engine, a heavier sturdier front nose gear that is also available for all M600 SN’s. A larger capacity battery which is also heavy, and a heavier starter generator, all of which address the aft CG of the M600. It still retains the 4 forward compartments where you can install ballast (weights) if needed to pull the CG forwards. The copilot seat now travels as far as the pilot seat, the O2 cabinet has been reshaped and resized. A bonus for those in the copilot seat. The systems pages are now what you would expect from a business jet, with functional diagrams, green systems are go. Performance data is calculated with the onboard weight and balance, which for a plane that can get off the ground in a little over 1000 feet. But you can pretend you are in one of the latest modern biz jets. The G3000 is loaded with almost anytime available on a G3000 platform, GWX8000 is standard, some new features like built in glide range rings that adjust with winds and altitude, performance profiles updated with winds and temps aloft as you travel, new system software with the GDL60 that allow you to check on your airplane such as fuel levels, database status, etc., anytime right from your smart phone as well as database uploads and engine parameter downloads that can use nearby WIFI or cellular data. Many little upgrades, like the nuisance alarms were addressed, such as not yelling check gear if you bring power back to idle. The oxygen level is no longer a gauge but is now on the systems page. You can select absolute or relative terrain or even merge them together like the old G1000 did. The ingress and egress is made easier by the new roomier copilot seat, and the pedestal which was shrunk to make it easier to get a leg between the pedestal and the seats. The auto throttle on the M600 is smooth, and intuitive, but the power lever control and activation on the M700 seems even smoother. The power lever movement feels more solid, but this may be true of the latest model M600’s as well. Better steering limit markings on the front gear, and a removable plastic cover that will break alerting you to an over-steer by the ground crew. Looks like that may be possible to retro to the M600 if desired. The M700 sports a newly designed rudder that really decreases the left turning tendency on takeoff and climb. Take off only requires light right rudder input, as opposed to almost feeling like you are standing on the rudder with a full power launch from a standstill in the M600. That is helpful in a plane that I am told has a higher power to weight ratio than a P51 Mustang. Well, I had to go Google, and do the math on that one, and it appears that the M700, in fact, has more power to weight than most P51 Mustangs. The acceleration on take-off, holding brakes until the auto throttle kicks in, is impressive. So impressive that my mind being in M600 mode, was behind the aircraft and I was already 6-8 knots above Vr before my brain caught up. Take off roll is just a little over 1000 feet in some conditions. The zero-fuel weight was increased on the M700, so you can trade more fuel for weight in the cabin. Lastly a lot of recurring SB’s, the need for a wing modification, some fatigue cracks noted on high use M600’s (which we are high utilizers  Has been addressed on the M700. So, a little cleaner maintenance going forward. Of course, the M700 may have its own stresses uncovered over time. The M700 still has Piper ultimate covering most maintenance and annuals for 5 years. So, everything can’t be perfect. What is possibly better on the M600. Well, the M700 loses the site glass for checking the turbine oil. That is replaced with a sensor that will CAS if the oil is getting on the low side of normal. Otherwise back to dipstick checking. The plane is heavier. There is more metal, not sure where it all is, but about 150 lbs more than the equivalent early M600’s, so the full fuel useful load is just a tad over 500 lbs, but then full fuel can take you depending on power settings 1200/1400/1800 nm. So rare to need full fuel and you can trade fuel for passengers. Well at least for now, I am looking for one in my Christmas stocking. I was told 2024 is sold out to the dealers, but motivated buyers can likely get one. The M700 closes some of the performance gap in the TBM960 and Epic. But comes in at a lower acquisition and operating cost. The operating costs are still in line with its little cousin the Piper Meridian, but with quite a bit more performance and capability. Piper has a winner here. A nice combination of cost, technology, comfort, and capability. Choosing any other aircraft is going to take a compromise in one of those factors. So, sits nicely in its own niche. This is the way writers of aviation publications should write reviews. Nice and thanks.
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 19 May 2024, 14:41 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3430 Post Likes: +4949 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: When I was looking at the M600 vs the TBM the M600 could not carry very much weight in the rear seats with luggage. No way to get 6 average size adults in the M600 without going aft CG. Can you get 6 180# people, 170# of bags and fly 800 miles in the M700? That is asking a lot from a small six seater  . The hardest things to do with the M600 and looks like the M700 is to load identical weight pax. Also statistically unlikely that everyone weights 180lbs.  . If I add 20 lbs to 3 of them, and take 20 lbs away from 3 of them, kind of like 3 heavy couples, Keep the heavies ip front, I can make the WB work for my plane. I have extra weight left over, but no CG to work with. Luggage gets shipped or someone gets left behind  . 6FAA standard people 3 guys, 3 gals, and 50 lb luggae you can go almost 1000nm in the M600. The M700 could go about 800 nm having to leave a little more fuel behind.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 23 May 2024, 10:12 |
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Joined: 12/29/12 Posts: 670 Post Likes: +261
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Great report! Excellent performance from the Fury. Comparing the speed / fuel burn from a Cirrus SF 50 vs the Fury. The cirrus fuels burn / speed come from a you tube video. No actual experience from my part.
Cirrus
59 gals / 294 ktas 68 gals / 305 ktas.
Fury
48 gals / 290 ktas 51 gals / 300 ktas.
Rgs Patrick
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Post subject: Re: Piper M700 Pirep Posted: 23 May 2024, 18:27 |
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Joined: 09/22/21 Posts: 31 Post Likes: +125
Aircraft: SF50
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Username Protected wrote: Comparing the speed / fuel burn from a Cirrus SF 50 vs the Fury. Cirrus 59 gals / 294 ktas 68 gals / 305 ktas. Patrick Book value on the Cirrus, max cruise, FL310, ISA temps, = 312 KTAS @ 65 GPH. They are typically a few knots faster than book, fuel flow is about right.
_________________ Mark Woglom
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