So you’re on the sidelines, criticizing guys who jump in with both feet for buying a legacy Citation? Seriously?

I appreciate all the knowledge you have accrued flying for guys who have the wherewithal to buy a more expensive plane and hire you as their pilot. Have you questioned your boss about why he hasn’t bought a new Global or Gulfstream, but rather is satisfied with an old Japanese airframe retrofitted with (admittedly fabulous) engines produced by a small business who happen to be brilliant businessmen? (By the way, I’m pretty sure I’ve sold more end items containing Williams engines then probably anyone else).

I would respect his decision as much as I would the guy who decides to buy a new Global or the guy who buys a legacy Citation. Everyone is in a different situation. For me, a legacy Citation with Pratts is far and away the best fit, all things considered. I’m not as fluent, so I’ll just close with “what Mike said”.

You have several choices:

FL350 MCT 1200 nm, ~427 KTAS cruise

FL410 MCT 1520 nm, ~418 KTAS cruise

FL450 MCT 1670 nm, ~395 KTAS cruise

FL450 LRC 1860 nm, ~365 KTAS cruise

This is with reserves, not to dry tanks, no wind, ISA.

Mike C.

You have several choices:

FL350 MCT 1200 nm, ~427 KTAS cruise

FL410 MCT 1520 nm, ~418 KTAS cruise

FL450 MCT 1670 nm, ~395 KTAS cruise

FL450 LRC 1860 nm, ~365 KTAS cruise

This is with reserves, not to dry tanks, no wind, ISA.

Mike C.

So you’re on the sidelines, criticizing guys who jump in with both feet for buying a legacy Citation? Seriously?

I appreciate all the knowledge you have accrued flying for guys who have the wherewithal to buy a more expensive plane and hire you as their pilot. Have you questioned your boss about why he hasn’t bought a new Global or Gulfstream, but rather is satisfied with an old Japanese airframe retrofitted with (admittedly fabulous) engines produced by a small business who happen to be brilliant businessmen? (By the way, I’m pretty sure I’ve sold more end items containing Williams engines then probably anyone else).

I would respect his decision as much as I would the guy who decides to buy a new Global or the guy who buys a legacy Citation. Everyone is in a different situation. For me, a legacy Citation with Pratts is far and away the best fit, all things considered. I’m not as fluent, so I’ll just close with “what Mike said”.

Because I'd rather have more airport options with a big straight wing that lands slow and easy.

The difference between 420 and 450 knots is not much on any given trip. You'd have to contrive some corner example, like a long flight into a big headwind, to get that difference to reach 10 minutes. On a typical flight it will be under 5 minutes.

Once you get past mach 0.73 or so, the cost and complexity to go faster shoots up exponentially. You generally need swept wings above mach 0.80, and you need transonic design to go above mach 0.90.

Mike C.

Do you own and pay for the jet you are flying?

Being an owner changes a lot of things when it is your money your are spending. It is easy to spend other people's money.


The other two airplanes, P300, CJ3, are way faster than the 400XTi when your SIC doesn't show up.

There are a lot of factors to effective speed. Simpler plane to get started and going, able to use closer airports, being able to fly it single pilot, being able to land on wet, snow, ice, all those things add to effective speed and capability.

If I could fly the 400 single pilot, I would have considered it seriously over the V. But I don't think that is ever going to happen, so it isn't a choice. I am not buying an airplane to end up chartering a human to ride along on every flight. I really like having an SIC in flight, but absolutely hate everything about it when on the ground. It is a real schedule killer.

Mike C.

Do you own and pay for the jet you are flying?

Being an owner changes a lot of things when it is your money your are spending. It is easy to spend other people's money.


The other two airplanes, P300, CJ3, are way faster than the 400XTi when your SIC doesn't show up.

There are a lot of factors to effective speed. Simpler plane to get started and going, able to use closer airports, being able to fly it single pilot, being able to land on wet, snow, ice, all those things add to effective speed and capability.

If I could fly the 400 single pilot, I would have considered it seriously over the V. But I don't think that is ever going to happen, so it isn't a choice. I am not buying an airplane to end up chartering a human to ride along on every flight. I really like having an SIC in flight, but absolutely hate everything about it when on the ground. It is a real schedule killer.

Mike C.

Not a silly argument. Dependency on having an SIC is a very real issue that costs time, money, and opportunity. And sometimes I am the pax and the pilot, just flying myself somewhere. That's the owner flown lifestyle, not the pro pilot one.

What does an SIC cost for a week long trip? Hotel, car, food, daily rate, etc? My V may use more fuel than a 400XTi, but when you cost out the SIC, it is cheaper.

Mike C.

Not a silly argument. Dependency on having an SIC is a very real issue that costs time, money, and opportunity. And sometimes I am the pax and the pilot, just flying myself somewhere. That's the owner flown lifestyle, not the pro pilot one.

What does an SIC cost for a week long trip? Hotel, car, food, daily rate, etc? My V may use more fuel than a 400XTi, but when you cost out the SIC, it is cheaper.

Mike C.

I have that.


So nobody should fly without two pilots? That eliminates much of GA.

You do like spending other people's money with expensive advice. I get the impression you aren't paying for what you are recommending, either.

Mike C.

I have that.


So nobody should fly without two pilots? That eliminates much of GA.

You do like spending other people's money with expensive advice.

Mike C.

Are you paying for an SIC out of your own pocket?

If not, then you aren't making those decisions with your own money.

Mike C.

Are you paying for an SIC out of your own pocket?

If not, then you aren't making those decisions with your own money.

Mike C.

Mike C. Wrote:
“Do you own and pay for the jet you are flying?

Being an owner changes a lot of things when it is your money your are spending. It is easy to spend other people's money.”

You can tell by the way MacGregor talks he has no skin in the game . I’ve flown with a couple of very skilled pilots who weren’t owners & they don’t treat the plane the same as an owner operator.

I slow my personal citation down to 90 gph when going on short hops and always roll to the end of the runway. When I fly with pro pilots in their non owned birds I routinely watch them use 200 gph and jam the brakes own on the same short hops. If you own it, you usually treat it better.