Citation 560 can be fitted with true double club.

You just commented on that in another thread about not having the galley.

Here's an example:

https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft


Yes, I consider it stupid to buy a $6M turboprop when you can have a jet that does the job better and safer for less.


Wealth and intelligence are not always correlated.

I bet that $13M plane doesn't have props, either.

Mike C.

You can’t check the bigger cabin / true double club boxes.

So, you’re calling my client stupid? But he has a $6M airplane and could have easily replaced it with a $13M airplane… hmmm…

Citation 560 can be fitted with true double club.

Yes, I consider it stupid to buy a $6M turboprop when you can have a jet that does the job better and safer for less.

For way less than a Blackhawk upgrade, I can check that box by replacing my galley with a seat.

That 8th passenger sure is expensive!


King Air 300 cabin volume: 303 cubic feet.

Citation V cabin volume: 292 cubic feet.

Yup, that's worth $5M more. Not.


I've always got the best airplane I can afford which means not wasting money in the wrong places.

Mike C.

Citation V, max weights, sea level, ISA:

Takeoff: 3160 ft

Landing: 2870 ft

I don't believe any King Air 300 series is less when subject to the same balanced field length requirements the jet meets. The takeoff number Textron publishes for the 360 is 3,300 ft takeoff, for example.

Mike C.

For way less than a Blackhawk upgrade, I can check that box by replacing my galley with a seat.

That 8th passenger sure is expensive!


King Air 300 cabin volume: 303 cubic feet.

Citation V cabin volume: 292 cubic feet.

Yup, that's worth $5M more. Not.


I've always got the best airplane I can afford which means not wasting money in the wrong places.

Mike C.

You mixed the cabin from the smaller plane with the takeoff distance from the larger plane.

A King Air doesn't work for you - but it's the right plane for a lot of other operators. They're not stupid.

A buddy of mine is on wheels up and he chartered a king air 350 to take us to his ranch. A king air wasn't available so they sent us a Citation X for no extra charge. That was a fun 38 minute flight. For the return flight, we weren't as lucky and they sent the KA 350. That was my first trip ever in a King Air of any kind. I have to say I was really unimpressed. It is hard to understand why people with all the money can justify spending new KA money when the legacy Citations are so much better in really all respects. And as far an easy to fly, I can't imagine anything being easier to fly than a Citation.

The jet is definitely easier to fly!

In a general sense, the bigger / more powerful the aircraft the easier it is to fly. I just did my first lesson in an R44, the last helicopter I flew was an S76B about a year ago... the S76B was a breeze!

A lot of KA buyers in my experience, and Chip can probably verify this, purchase the King Air because of perception. The jet, regardless of if it would be less money in the long run, gives an image that a lot of buyers don't want. This even goes for the size of the King Air, if you can believe it. I have a current customer in a C90b, that could really stand to upgrade.......the best fit would be a 350........but the boss is keen on the perception of what they "allocate resources to". And since the boss writes the check............

A lot of KA buyers in my experience, and Chip can probably verify this, purchase the King Air because of perception. The jet, regardless of if it would be less money in the long run, gives an image that a lot of buyers don't want. This even goes for the size of the King Air, if you can believe it. I have a current customer in a C90b, that could really stand to upgrade.......the best fit would be a 350........but the boss is keen on the perception of what they "allocate resources to". And since the boss writes the check............

I might be wrong, but I don't think one person in this thread that has said "Owning a jet is cheaper" has included the price per hour of a reasonable overhaul reserve in their math.

I included that. My engine program is like $375 per hour for both engines.

What the cost of TP engine and prop on a King Air? Might not $375 total but it's not free.

And no I don't think anyone said flying a Jet is cheaper than a SETP or TETP. The argument is the overall cost to fly a jet with capital can be similar to a newer SETP and maybe even less.

So whats the engine and prop reserve for M600 and KA90? which I think both have smaller cabins than my 501sp. Have not been in a KA90 so might be wrong.


Edit- Actually thats not a good comparison to look at hourly reserves on a jet vs TP. You have to look at per mile reserves.

Mike

Mike,

I think that extra $375/hr is what pushes the Williams planes over the edge for me. With a partner, they work. Without, they don't.

Mike C's JTXXX engines are cheaper, but they don't have the hot & high I need.

A reasonable PT-6 budget is about $100/hr/side. You'll probably pay less. By the standards Ciholas uses here, $50/hr/side would be closer..

Interesting thread. I grew up on Beechcrafts. My dad had Bonanzas, a Travel Air, Barons, and Queen Airs. My first two employers were Beech dealers. I had the privilege to fly nearly everything Beech made in the ‘70s and ‘80s, including C, E, and F90s, 200s and B200s. I sneered at Citation 500/550s as “near-jets”. A few years later, I flew for a company that operated 500s and 550s. I quickly found out that my preconceived notions and biases were completely wrong. Other than the wimpy bleed air windshield heat and lack of standard air conditioning, the 500/550 was (IMO) a significant leap beyond any King Air. Transport category airport performance, ability to climb above the vast majority of weather, and incredibly easy handling characteristics made me a Citation believer. With thrust reversers, we operated the Citations reliably and safely out of our 3,200’ home base year round. If you can justify the cost difference, I’d take a 500 series Citation over any King Air every time.

Greg