I have both an A36 and a meridian. I love them both. The meridian is good for 4 people with luggage and weather is just not as big of a deal. The pressurization is unmatched and the reason almost all my long trips are in that aircraft. While th3 bonanza can do the same missions, I like being 100kts faster ant 20,000 ft higher. It certainly is more expensive, but the reliability and associated comfort is not comparable.

Feel free to ask any questions. There is so much great information on here and MMOPA that I am sure your questions will be answered.

For you, what does the Bonanza do that the Meridian can't?

My experience trying to fit in the cockpit

That’s how I felt in every CJ I test sat, M2, 501, ultra. The 510 felt like it had more room than any of them. The Meridian felt like it had more room than the M2 as that floor yoke is a killer. But the Meridian is definitely tight for taller than 6 footers. I ended up taking 2 inches of cushion out of my seat and that made a world of difference.

My G1000 Meridian went annual to annual with maintenance with very few exceptions, and annuals came in around $12,000 a year. We flew it about 100 hours a year so $120 an hour for maintenance. Pretty sure you’re not touching that with a 501. Our depreciation was $700 an hour. But the plane we bought had a depreciation of $2500 an hour when we bought it and has now appreciated 75% as of the last unsolicited offer. Doesn’t matter as anything I’d buy next follows the same curve.

As for fatalities, jets had a great year and I really hope it sticks. Any stats on runway excursions? I’ve seen a lot of sideways jets on Crash Talk lately but I don’t know if I’m just more cognizant of them now.

Chip-

Any stats on Meridian/M600 runway excursions?

MMOPA has these. MMOPA.com When I considered buying a Meridian, I joined for 2 years. One year membership $285 — well worth it. Also Joe Casey of Casey Aviation is a great resource and all around great guy! flycasey.com

Ended up buying a Lancair IV-P…

Best,

Tom

I really worried about this before buying my V. I've never had a floor column and I heard reports like this from others, that it was a pain.

Well, it isn't for me. I'm really quite comfortable in the pilot's seat. The column doesn't interfere with my sitting posture or my legs. So the issue doesn't exist for me. I am 6'2", too, so not small.

Perhaps part of this is that my avionics refit removed the pedestal full of stuff between the seats so I can easily get in and out of the seat without that in the way. That was a HUGE improvement.


Pretty sure that won't hold up long term for a Meridian, either.

At 150 hours/year, I get phase1-4 every 450 hours, and phase 1-5 every 900 hours. Let's say phase 1-4 is $30K and phase 1-5 is $60K, that's $90K for 900 hours, $100/hour for inspections and related squawks. That's surprisingly good.

My phase 1-4 completed last year was $13K labor and $12K ACM rebuild, so $30K is not unreasonable, and an ACM rebuild is unusual (5000 hours TBO). So I am allowing for one "big" thing per inspection. I'm good on major inspections now until 2025, that's really nice!

I did have one major AOG event that cost me $8K. Hydraulic line leaked. Net costs over the last 200 hours are about $35K and this includes a lot of fix ups from latent issues which should not be recurring.

I would estimate my long term average will be $200 to $250 per hour for maintenance, so maybe $100K more over a 6 year span for "other stuff" outside the inspections. I am an involved frugal owner which is why my numbers are better than most. The hands off folks who use factory service centers could easily be double that, but a 501 is not a plane you take to a service center, IMO. A decent local mechanic can work on it, more so than an MU2, IMO, and there are way more folks who have worked on a Citation than an MU2, and possibly a Meridian.

We also have to correct for miles flown. The Meridian is, say, 250 knots cruise? I'm 410 knots. Your $120/hour is $0.48 per nm, my $200/hour is $0.49 per mile. So maintenance *per mile* isn't a lot different, and I think that's the proper metric to judge it by.

On fuel, the Meridian win hands down, probably 1/2 my cost per mile and 1/3 per hour. The 501 will be a little better, but not a lot despite being smaller and slower. Fuel is the number one thing when flying a jet, everything else is relatively minor. I do what I can to control costs by tankering (my big tanks help, 501 not as much), shopping around, and contract programs.


We already had one fatality this year, the P300 takeoff out of Utah. Not yet clear what went wrong. Some say weather/icing, I'm not so sure.

In 2021 we had one fatal accident, a Citation V flown by a painfully inept pilot on his first solo. So stupid.

The yearly totals are small numbers, and it covers all N registered jets which fly a LOT of miles. The jet fatal accident rate is easily 10 times less than turboprops.


You hear about jet runway excursions because they make the news and there are few other jet accidents to talk about. As with most accidents, it is stupid pilot ricks. HondaJet and Phenoms seems to lead the pack in this regard.

Be configured and on speed and you will have no trouble. That's good advice for any plane.

Having TRs allows you to screw up a bit more and save the situation, too, plus handle contaminated runways a lot better. Probably the most impressive thing in the video was one guy saying he preferred to have TRs for these reasons, which is not a typical 20 something opinion to have.

Mike C.

Charles, I realize I'm echoing what Mike and others have said, but I figured I'd weigh in...

I have about 150 hours in CE500s, and all of that gained over the last 15 months or so. My background is piston twins and I currently own a King Air. Also fly Conquest IIs and some other airplanes, so I've got a pretty broad breadth of experience.

Getting the type rating was simple. I went with the "in airplane" method and it was 3 days and a little under $20k. No, I wasn't ready to hop in an airplane and be PIC with a rookie SIC day 1, but I was legal and safe. Got a lot of right seat and left seat with experienced captains under my belt, then in December this year I went to LOFT and got my SPE (about $10k and 5 days).

With any pressurized twin or turbine you're going to have to do initial and recurrent training. Yeah, the hurdle for the type rating and subsequent SPE (if needed - Obviously not needed in a 501) is a bit more than what I have to do in my King Air, but the training isn't that different.

The annual 61.58 ride is a checkride as opposed to my annual training in the King Air (which is great at King Air Academy, just not with a formal checkride at the end), and that does add a little stress, but also keeps you on your toes and ensures that you're proficient to fly the plane.

Flying the plane itself is simple. You shove the levers forward to go fast, bring the back to go slower. Kick out the speed brakes if you want to slow faster. The plane is VERY stable but also quite nice to hand fly. The approach speeds are essentially the same as in most twins, and you can slow down in the terminal area and tool around at Bonanza speeds if things are happening too fast.

Sure, a pai of GTN750s and G600Txis would be nice, and I agree that it increases safety, but it is a problem that can be $olved.

I'm not sure a legacy Citation is a good comparison to a Meridian/M600 and both have their niches, but I don't think the hurdle to get into a Citation is much more than getting into any twin turbine (King Air, etc), and I also think they are easier to fly.

Robert

Jason-
I had/have the same goals. Before my oldest leaves the house, I want to see the entire country. We have been in a 421C partnership for 2+ years now and it suits our mission very well. We fly with 6-7 people often, and all of their bags and full fuel and stay in W&B. Has close to 1000 mile no wind range with aux tank. A/C, pressurization, FIKI, large quiet cabin, belted potty, tons of baggage space, plan for 212kts at 20k feet and 39gph. Much lower capex than turbines, lower insurance but this only works if you get a very thoroughly sorted and well maintained example. Doesn't have turbine speeds nor reliability, but a pretty good large family go places aircraft. Definitely higher workload than Meridian. Good luck and go make some memories seeing the country.

The biz jets are safe, but don't confuse owner flown part 91 with the safety record generated by part 91 and 135 pro-pilot and crewed operation which comprise the vast majority of flight hours. The Meridian also has a very good safety record, with the reported accidents heavily weighted towards the typical pilot related issues. 3 Meridian fatal accidents for instance occurred in IMC with VFR only pilots. Go figure. The later Meridian/M500's have a particularly good safety record, in fact since Piper started putting in GX000 panels in 2009, there has not been a fatal accident in any Piper GX000 turbine, including the Meridian, M500 and M600. And there are more of those flying than most of the modern light jets.

As far as the avionics suite in the Salt Lake accident. Maybe this is a standard panel, but I look at that and want to scratch my head. If stuff stops working where do you even start? And heaven help you if you have to fly off that poorly placed backup AI at 200 knots in turbulence.

This, I believe was the panel in that aircraft, at least the last time it sold.



Here is a stock picture from an M500. Maybe I am just more comfortable with integrated avionics, but that is a whole lot easier to process and a lot more redundant. 3 AI's and 4 in reversionary mode, 3 ADC's, 3 ADHRS, they monitor each other and alert the pilot if one is going wonky. Fully digital AP that can run off either main ADHRs. Full envelope protection, including automatic autopilot engagement if the pilots can't get the plane back in control, blue level button, synthetic vision, TAWS, active traffic, 3D volumetric radar with terrain suppression.....

Yes, but still, zero fatal in a year is zero for all operators.


That's true for all types.

If you get to discount the stupid pilots, then I can do the same for Citation operators. Not much left to discuss when you do that.


I am totally wrong about that, my apologies. I thought PL21 started at serial 260, but it started at serial 360.

The plane in Utah was serial 299, so it was "semi integrated", about the same as my plane used to be. It had tubes with graphical displays, but small ones, like your pictures shows. Sort of the bridge between steam and EFIS, with the positives and flaws of both. He did have GTN navigators, so it was partially Garminized.

You are making a claim that integrated avionics would have saved them, but that's conjecture. The exact faults and issues were never properly determined. He did have at least 3 independent sources of attitude and that was apparently not enough.

Today, there is an STC to put in the G600 TXi, GTN 750 Xi, and the GFC 600 autopilot in the CJ. So you can basically make it like a modern airplane (and better than some).

I'll admit that my Citation training has been deficient in partial panel work. And all of my training has been in simulator at Flight Safety, considered top of the line. The only partial panel we did was airspeed blockage. I found that weird. There are a lot of things I'd like to practice in my plane partial panel, but it is hard to make that work without causing trouble (like dropping ADS-B). I would also like to see what happens in GPS denied situations, but can't find any way to legally make that happen. Sometimes jets are so reliable that we get complacent.

In my modern panel, it is roughly the equivalent of what you posted for the Meridian. I do have 3 independent sources of instruments, two G700 TXi (same as G600 TXi but for part 25) and one battery backed up GI 275. I really don't like that all are electronic (like your Meridian, alas) but that's what I have.

Mike C.

I don’t remember the M2 having any room to shuffle your feet by the pedestal and past the floor yoke, but the photos I looked at just now all show more room to maneuver than I remember. Maybe they made an update at some point as the photos I see of the pedestal look a lot more like Mike’s pedestal mod - which looks like there’s plenty of room to get in the seat without having to risk a flying foot kick to the co-pilot. The Meridian requires a shuffle to get your feet in but it’s one of those things where once you figure it out it just feels natural. I suspect it’s similar to most of these planes, although the P100 requires a leg lift to get in, there’s a little more width and height to it to make it more deft feeling.

I loved my time in the Meridian. While not FADEC it was dead simple to start and run. Making sure your tire pressures were correct was always of utmost importance to us, as was trusting just how slow you could approach in. I think it was a known secret that the Meridian would beat book numbers all day, ours was a 272knot airplane at the upper temp limits but we flew it at around 264. Our 650 mile trip was perfect for it and we would do it in a little under 3 hours. Now we do it in under 2 and find ourselves pushing further south more often in the winter.

I think we did 250,000 miles in the Meridian over 10 years and never once with an in flight failure. It’s a well built and well sorted machine.

Chip-

Not having a non digital backup wouldn’t bother me if there isn’t any single point of failure between the 700s and the GI275. I suspect a few redundant systems would have to fail to even be on the 275.

In the fall we had an actual GPS signal blockage coming into land at KFLL at about 200 feet, fortunately we were VMC as our plane did NOT handle that well. Pretty sure even the lav is tied into the GPS signal. By the time we taxied off the runway it was back up and running but that would not have been fun to have had that happen elsewhere. I would definitely try and figure out a way to at least test what happens with no GPS signal in your plane, even if jacked up on the ground, just so you know what you’ll lose.

Chip-

I've owned 2 55s a 58P a Duke a TBM 700C, a Citation iii and now a Meridian.

The Meridian is extremely capable and by far the most efficient airplane I've owned. It cost about the same as a 55 to maintain. I fly my Meridian from Houston to Cabo, Grand Rapids, Traverse City, Key West, Phoenix, Napa, Orange County, and many other places. Many of those nonstop. I actually made it from Traverse City to Houston non-stop once.

I routinely fly at 270/280 and see 265 knots burning 38GPH.

Feel free to DM me. I'll be glad to walk you through my experience.

If you buy one I strongly suggest hiring Neal Schwartz and using Malibu Aerospace for a prebuy inspection.

Once you go turbine you wont go back.

One more thing, you can glide almost 60 miles from 280. Something I would rather do during the day if I had to vs the night. That's the one negative to not having a second engine.

Buy a twin cessna and you will need 2. 1 to fly while the other is in the shop.

Ryan

How would you compare the TBM vs the Meridian? Handling qualities, not operating or maint cost.

Turbulence between the 2 types

Nosewheel steering during landing