22 Jan 2025, 12:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 09 Feb 2023, 17:20 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/21/18 Posts: 725 Post Likes: +945
Aircraft: C182R
|
|
Reported as a successful full-duration test of all 33 engines.
That would make it the most rocket engines ever fired simultaneously, as well as the most powerful firing of a rocket, in history.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 09 Feb 2023, 20:12 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/21/18 Posts: 725 Post Likes: +945
Aircraft: C182R
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I am thrilled that it did not RUD.
Full duration? The feed I was listening to mentioned the run time lasting 2-10 secs, depending. By my crude measurement it as ~4 secs. Perhaps they achieved all their goals? Perhaps a parameter was out of spec and it was a precautionary shutdown- beats me.
Given how much work is done in the open, I am looking forward to WAI’s report and videos re: the rocket and facility. SpaceX announced just after the test that it had achieved full planned duration. Two engines didn't fire, for various reasons, so it was a 31 engine firing in the end.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 09 Feb 2023, 21:45 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 21341 Post Likes: +21459 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Two engines didn't fire, for various reasons, so it was a 31 engine firing in the end. Unfortunately, that’s a Fail. The test will certainly have been valuable, but we aren’t going to be seeing any launches until they can get them all to light reliably. Raptors are not the easiest rocket motors to get started, and I’ve always thought that trying to get 33 of them on line all at once was a tall order.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 09 Feb 2023, 22:35 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/23/08 Posts: 7376 Post Likes: +4074 Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx. Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Two engines didn't fire, for various reasons, so it was a 31 engine firing in the end. Unfortunately, that’s a Fail. The test will certainly have been valuable, but we aren’t going to be seeing any launches until they can get them all to light reliably. Raptors are not the easiest rocket motors to get started, and I’ve always thought that trying to get 33 of them on line all at once was a tall order. Ahh the dreaded 31 engine v1 cut….
_________________ Tom Johnson-Az/Wy AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com C: 602-628-2701
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 00:37 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 21341 Post Likes: +21459 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Indeed.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 00:39 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/21/18 Posts: 725 Post Likes: +945
Aircraft: C182R
|
|
It seems that there is some redundancy built in. Musk states that 31 engines would still have been sufficient to boost the second stage to orbit, in a real launch.
I'm sure they'll have learned plenty about why those two didn't ignite (in fact they were commanded not to light, presumably due to suboptimal sensor readings).
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 07:59 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 21341 Post Likes: +21459 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: It seems that there is some redundancy built in. Musk states that 31 engines would still have been sufficient to boost the second stage to orbit, in a real launch. Yes, for a first attempt at an orbital test flight with an unladen Starship, the 31 working motors would probably be fine, but operationally with a heavy payload, it most likely wouldn’t have been enough. Elon has commented, and it has been observed that under optimal conditions, Raptor engines are tricky to light. Multiplied by 33 that’s even harder. I’m sure they’ll work it out, but for anything beyond an early test, they’ll need to.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 09:23 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/23/08 Posts: 7376 Post Likes: +4074 Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx. Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
|
|
Username Protected wrote: It seems that there is some redundancy built in. Musk states that 31 engines would still have been sufficient to boost the second stage to orbit, in a real launch. Yes, for a first attempt at an orbital test flight with an unladen Starship, the 31 working motors would probably be fine, but operationally with a heavy payload, it most likely wouldn’t have been enough. Elon has commented, and it has been observed that under optimal conditions, Raptor engines are tricky to light. Multiplied by 33 that’s even harder. I’m sure they’ll work it out, but for anything beyond an early test, they’ll need to. John I don’t really get where you are going. Are you just casting doubt? Isn’t this the exact concept behind a test campaign and rapid iteration?
They’ll fix it, or find another way- always have. This is very very close to a best case outcome for a test like this. Not the “Fail” you indicated previously.
Elon said one was told to stop prior to start and the other stopped itself.
_________________ Tom Johnson-Az/Wy AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com C: 602-628-2701
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 11:33 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 21341 Post Likes: +21459 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
|
|
Username Protected wrote: John I don’t really get where you are going. Are you just casting doubt? Isn’t this the exact concept behind a test campaign and rapid iteration?
They’ll fix it, or find another way- always have. This is very very close to a best case outcome for a test like this. Not the “Fail” you indicated previously.
Elon said one was told to stop prior to start and the other stopped itself. Casting doubt on an orbital attempt in March, yes. They can't afford a major failure and while 31 out of 33 might get a satisfactory test result, what is there to suggest that it was more than luck that held the misfire count to two? Yes, this is exactly what they need to be doing right now, and it will get them to where they need to be eventually. My observation is only that this test failed in the context of progressing to a flight test in late February or early March. If it proves to be otherwise I will be surprised and a little concerned. Maybe this is just a control or sensing issue and not an actual engine problem, but either way I expect that it will need to be resolved and another full fire test conducted successfully (all engines operating as designed) prior to any attempt at flight. Consider also that the FAA has not yet signed off on this flight, so they may have a say in what constitutes a satisfactory test too.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 17:11 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19440 Post Likes: +24000 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: They can't afford a major failure Actually, they can. In fact, they have planned for it and assumed it will happen. SpaceX clearly operates where failure is an option. They will probably fail on the OFT. Even if they succeed, the vehicle will be lost. They are building a slew of vehicles behind this one and might lose many of them, too. It is a radically different philosophy than, say, NASA. The basic tradeoff is spending money on testing versus money on design verification. The most precious outcome is the data from the flight. The longer it flies, the more they get and the more valuable it is, but every bit will help. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Spacex Starship OFT Posted: 10 Feb 2023, 18:27 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19440 Post Likes: +24000 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Yes, but they have a lot invested in the ground infrastructure now in the area. They don't want to lose mechazilla. Potential loss of the Texas pad is one of the reasons they are building a second launch facility at pad 39A at Kennedy Space Center. https://spaceflightnow.com/2023/01/06/f ... -carriage/They must believe in the "catch" method for this one to go ahead and build a seconds such setup. Even if the "catch" method doesn't work, the "chopsticks" are useful for stacking operations. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|