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26 Jun 2025, 19:12 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2022, 09:20 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 35
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Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
It looks like i am 10-15 kts off of your speeds at the same altitude and power settings. I think troubleshooting the gear is the first line of business because that indicator light isnt showing gear locked up.

Do you think its doable to get some footage via go-pro style camera from rear or wing tie-down positioning? Im thinking this may be a good 1st step to see if its a gear or gear door problem or maybe a squat switch problem? My a&P is a few weeks out before i could have him troubleshoot further.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2022, 13:17 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1760
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Aircraft: C180
That sounds like fantastic idea to me. I can tell you a visual inspection from another airplane didn’t show anything on mine maybe if you position camera close enough to each gear ?

Three friends can test the up light circuits on the ground too, the switches push hard and all three need to be depressing at same time, I got creative with some wood shims and some clamps and levers etc to depress them.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2022, 06:13 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 35
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Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
Well, it looks like my gear retracts into the wheel wells ok. My gear up light is now likely a switch compression issue. I do notice some wind noise coming from my entry door. The Baggage door I cannot notice any noise. It has 5 latches that lock it into place pretty well. I will say that maybe I cannot hear anything back that far.

Norman- where do I find information on the rigging of the ailerons/flaps?

[youtube]https://youtu.be/aX9iC3--bek[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2022, 09:20 
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Joined: 01/19/16
Posts: 4173
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Location: 13FA Earle Airpark FL/0A7 Hville NC
Aircraft: E33/152A
Username Protected wrote:
Well, it looks like my gear retracts into the wheel wells ok. My gear up light is now likely a switch compression issue. I do notice some wind noise coming from my entry door. The Baggage door I cannot notice any noise. It has 5 latches that lock it into place pretty well. I will say that maybe I cannot hear anything back that far.

Norman- where do I find information on the rigging of the ailerons/flaps?

[youtube]https://youtu.be/aX9iC3--bek[/youtube]


From the first video it appears that your aileron/flap rigging is not out enough to cause the speed penalty you have. Typically one flap is lowered to correct mis rigged ailerons.

The first thing that I would do is get it on jacks and fix your up light circuit. While it is on jacks leave the gear retracted to see if it leaks down and the gear doors creep open. There are no mechanical uplocks as it is held up tight with isolated hydraulic pressure.

You can try cycling the gear handle from neutral to the up position in flight to see if you get the “bump” that Mark described. The gear will sag from an internally leaking actuator and can be labor intensive to isolate. It can also sag from a leaking internal valve in the powerpak.

Any one of the the three gear actuators can cause it to sag. My thinking is if it is caused by one of the door actuators it would only sag until the manual gear door sequence valve is released in the first inch or so of travel. So if it just sags a little then holds I would suspect a door actuator has an internal leak. If it continues to drop after the pin on the sequence valve loses contact then one of the three main actuators or the internal pop off valve in the powerpac would be suspect.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2023, 12:24 
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What MP (turbo aztec) do you guys get on takeoff? My mechanic likes to set it 32 MP, I asked for 35 inches, but why not go all the way to redline MP? Is there a concern with engine longevity? He claims there is a concern, I just want to double check.

Rgs,

Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2023, 15:46 
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
Username Protected wrote:
What MP (turbo aztec) do you guys get on takeoff? My mechanic likes to set it 32 MP, I asked for 35 inches, but why not go all the way to redline MP? Is there a concern with engine longevity? He claims there is a concern, I just want to double check.

Rgs,

Patrick



You want all the MP available. Engine out when loaded you will beg for just two more inches of MP. The engine was made for it. Expensive Ezpensive Iconel exhaust valves and slightly reduced compression ratio. Just make sure you have proper Fuel flow.

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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2023, 15:46 
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
You want all the MP available. Engine out when loaded you will beg for just two more inches of MP. The engine was made for it. Expensive Ezpensive Iconel exhaust valves and slightly reduced compression ratio. Just make sure you have proper Fuel flow.

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2023, 19:41 
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Aircraft: E33/152A
Set it by the book. The engines are derated with lower compression pistons. At sea level they produce the same 250 HP as a normally aspirated or turbo-normalized model but only at specified manifold pressure. It is not airworthy if set at 32” and does not conform to the type certificate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2023, 01:20 
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Joined: 01/22/19
Posts: 1100
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Location: KPMP
Aircraft: PA23-250
Username Protected wrote:
What MP (turbo aztec) do you guys get on takeoff? My mechanic likes to set it 32 MP, I asked for 35 inches, but why not go all the way to redline MP? Is there a concern with engine longevity? He claims there is a concern, I just want to double check.

Rgs,

Patrick


He needs to use Lycoming Service Letter 1187J to set up the controller properly. This is a sophisticated control system that uses a density controller in addition to the waste gate, so there is no "one size fits all" setting. Properly set, the TIO-540-C1a will give great performance from seal level to FL280 with minimal pilot intervention, as it was designed to do.

A test flight to verify the settings is needed. You should go to at least 17,000 feet to verify that the system is holding MP correctly. If it's not, you may have exhaust leaks, or induction leaks, or a worn turbocharger.

The reason you don't just go to redline is not that the engine can't take it. The turbo is the weak link. Setting the MP too high without regard to atmospheric conditions can lead to turbo overspeed, in which the turbo self destructs. And the turbine wheel is a mere 12 inches from the intake, which makes a convenient path for the shrapnel to flow into the engine.

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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2023, 17:36 
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Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 366
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Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
Cant remember where I read it...pretty sure it was a Lycoming published number.
My takeoff power is 36" and reduced to 35" at 1000ft for climb until cruise.

Previous owner had it set for red line which is 39.5".

I believe you're asking for trouble holding 39.5 for entire climb segment as you're exceeding 250hp.

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2023, 17:42 
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Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 366
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Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
As suggested by Glenn, i just looked up Lycoming Service Letter 1187J.

It states max MP to be 36" on a C1A.

Mark

PS. FWIW, Glenn is the Aztec Yoda. I hang on his every word. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2023, 22:57 
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Joined: 01/22/19
Posts: 1100
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Location: KPMP
Aircraft: PA23-250
see the chart for the correct MP settings


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 18:35 
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Joined: 10/03/17
Posts: 330
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Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Question for the brain trust, I've got a leaky gascolator on a 1972 Turbo E. Is there an O ring that I should look at before contacting Steve's ? Thanks in advance, Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 18:38 
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Joined: 04/17/19
Posts: 397
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Location: KMMU - New Jersey
Aircraft: Piper Aztec
Username Protected wrote:
Question for the brain trust, I've got a leaky gascolator on a 1972 Turbo E. Is there an O ring that I should look at before contacting Steve's ? Thanks in advance, Daniel

You can try these - https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/produ ... /FSP-KT-1/


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2023, 19:05 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1760
Post Likes: +705
Aircraft: C180
Man the aluminum bowls suck. I preened mine back flat so they would seal. McFarlane one didn’t work because sealing surface was dimpled in after 50 years of it being torqued on.

Next step is the CNC ones and that job looks not fun.


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