[/quote]
That's messed up. Must not have talked to the right folks.

Mike, curious where you think insurance should be first year on a 501sp and a king air 90 in this situation? Then50k sounded high…[/quote]

My insurance for my 501 Eagle II was $22k for $800k
Hull. I have 1500TT and had no turbine or Jet. Then I had to change to another company that allowed dry leasing. Then it went to $35k annually.

The training is the same time for most planes like PA46 or 421 that have insurance required training. The only difference is they charge a lot more for jet training. Even though it takes the same amount of time. My 421 was $4500 for initial and the 501 is $15k. Both the same process and in my plane.

Maintenance cost for first year of 501 has been less than my PA46 and 421.

Sure it cost more to fly a jet. But it’s way safer and much more comfortable. Right now JetA is expensive so it hurts. But when I got my 501 it was average $3.50 gallon and trip cost was about the same as my 421 burning 100LL.

If you can afford it there is no reason to not fly a jet.

Mike

The Citation 501 is really the perfect upgrade from a Baron/421/414, etc. Here's a video of my restored 501. I haven't messed with the panel yet but for the money, there's not a better value in aviation than a 501. As most people know we rebuild 500 series Citations. I liked this one so much I personally bought it from the company. It's a feel good airplane. It's fun to fly, safe, reliable, comfortable, not too big or small, and not that expensive to maintain.

Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK1KXNvdvNI

Hey Mike - You went from a P210 to an MU-2? Of course the Mits owners thought you were crazy. Thank goodness you've got the right attitude about training.

BTW Since the OP was dissing the "hassle" of flying with a mentor pilot, did anybody else tune in to the American Bonanza Society's October webinar, "Single Pilot IFR: What Went Wrong?" with Jeff Edwards? Jeff is the guy the insurance company hires when they don't want to honor your estate's insurance claim for the total loss of your brand new $3M Meridian that you crashed within months of purchasing new. He goes through your logbook line by line and matches your entries to FlightAware flight history. And archived METARS so if you're claiming 80% of that cross-country time was actual instruments...

And in the case of the Meridian pilot, they also went through all the aircraft's EIS logs and examined the electrical system load and came to the conclusion the pilot was in the habit of ignoring the POH checklist which calls for PITOT HEAT - ON prior to take-off. "PINC" - Procedural Intentional Non-Compliance. (A factor in 40% of bizjet accidents worldwide.) What happens when you fly a Meridian at the flight levels through towering cumulus and the PITOT ices over?

Like Mike says - do the most thorough training you can. Your passengers will thank you.

Nice plan.


MU2 short body is 12'10" tall, so would fit.

MU2 long body is 13'8" tall, won't fit.


Absolutely.

Mike C.

T210L, not P.


They still do, but now for buying a jet.

Mike C.

I went from a B58 Baron to a TBM in 2012. Never looked back.

That's messed up. Must not have talked to the right folks.

Mike, curious where you think insurance should be first year on a 501sp and a king air 90 in this situation? Then50k sounded high…[/quote]

My insurance for my 501 Eagle II was $22k for $800k
Hull. I have 1500TT and had no turbine or Jet. Then I had to change to another company that allowed dry leasing. Then it went to $35k annually.

The training is the same time for most planes like PA46 or 421 that have insurance required training. The only difference is they charge a lot more for jet training. Even though it takes the same amount of time. My 421 was $4500 for initial and the 501 is $15k. Both the same process and in my plane.


Maintenance cost for first year of 501 has been less than my PA46 and 421.

Sure it cost more to fly a jet. But it’s way safer and much more comfortable. Right now JetA is expensive so it hurts. But when I got my 501 it was average $3.50 gallon and trip cost was about the same as my 421 burning 100LL.

If you can afford it there is no reason to not fly a jet.

Mike[/quote]
Did you have any mentor time required? Are your engines on a LUMP program?

LUMP (low utilization maintenance program) is offered by Textron to certain operators who qualify. It is not an engine program but an airframe maintenance program. Technically, it is really an "inspection" program when it comes to the legal requirements from the FAA.

A LUMP does not change anything about engine maintenance. It does change the intervals of the primary inspection phases.

Phase 1-4 went from 300 hours and 2 years to 450 hours and 3 years.
Phase 5 went from 1200 hours and 3 years to 1200 hours and 6 years.

I just went through phase 1-4 without difficulty, so now I'm not due for any major inspections until 2025 when phase 1 to 5 will be due.

Not having to take the airplane all apart as often is a major improvement in uptime, reliability, cost. This is one reason I think the Citation may not cost me much more to maintain than the MU2 (which had a significant inspection every 100 hours or 12 months, far too often). There are other inspections that are required at various intervals, but they are relatively minor, day or two, and don't require any significant disassembly.

Since the LUMP is offered by Textron, it qualifies under 91.409(f)(3), a program recommended by the manufacturer, which means it does not require FSDO approval, and the program has different rules that are favorable to the operator than an inspection program designed by others (such as yourself or other providers such as Bacon Aviation). You simply select the LUMP in your aircraft records and you are good to go. Once selected, Textron cannot revoke or change your LUMP.

Textron offers the LUMP at their whim, and to qualify you need a plane that is used less than 200 hours/year and is not "heavily" modified. Textron doesn't define that exactly, but I know they won't issue LUMPs for legacy Citations with FJ44 engine upgrades. Outside of engine upgrades, I have not heard of anyone being denied a LUMP. My LUMP was approved in just a few days right after I purchased the airplane. The cost was $6000, a one time fee.

If you operate a legacy Citation less than 200 hours a year, you should get a LUMP. It is a huge advantage.

Mike C.

I vote TBM

Ted, I love the T bones…matter of,fact I have a 2600 foot grass strip and that makes me think of them from time to time.

How has the twin bo been as far as maintenance? One of the things I like about the turbines and jets is thst they seem to haVe a Better dispatch rate than pistons….

I vote MU2 and have $2-3M cash in the bank (or no hefty loan payment).

For what you save on the cost of capital, a BIG deal in current times, the MU2 will be free to operate versus the TBM.

Mike C.

Insurance required 25 hours of mentor time for 501 transition.

Which to be honest is minimum of what you would want anyway.

One of the companies wanted 50 hours so it’s somewhere between 25-50 that will be required.

In my opinion it takes at least 25 hours in a new type to get comfortable, especially in a jet.

Those mentor hours in a jet do get expensive. You are burning a lot of expensive fuel and a CFI type person. I worked a deal out with a CFI type rated pilot for $600 a day.

Like I said Jets are expensive but worth it.

Mike

Most pilots are not interested in an 40 year old out of production twin, especially a MU2.





I vote MU2 and have $2-3M cash in the bank (or no hefty loan payment).

For what you save on the cost of capital, a BIG deal in current times, the MU2 will be free to operate versus the TBM.

Mike C.

My final .02. Having a hangar is a priority. If you can afford a jet, it's a no brainer. For starters think of your family. A jet is so, and I mean SOOO, much safer than any turboprop (and I'll add extra OOOOs if it's a piston twin). If you lose an engine in a jet it's almost a non-issue. Any plane with big props out there has a large level of danger when you lose an engine. I don't care how much training you do, your ass will be sweating if you lose an engine, especially down low and in weather. And speaking of weather, a jet will get above 95% of all bad weather or move you the extra 100 miles around it in 15 minutes. Finally, the comfort and quietness of the jet will improve the health of you and your family over a prop plane.

PS I said earlier that fuel burn has kept me out of a Citation. The main reason I don't have a Citation is the lack of hangars at PDK.

Todd, I wish I flew enough to justify wanting your Baron. Our 3 kids are mostly grown (as far as size) but the Toga useful load and cabin size still gives us ample room. Not fast but fast enough. The second engine would be nice and the faster cruise... I'd need a good partner to even consider it. Compared to my fixed gear PA32 I bet a Baron would be hard on my wallet too. lol