Going to Rochester,NY tomorrow.
NYC-I have been to Essex, Teterboro, Morristown and Linden in Aerostar and Columbia.

If ever I am forced to go back to NYC I will probably land at TEB

You likely all ready know but plan last 150 miles on getting routed down low and burning too much gas. I would file a Turbofan arrival, keep speed as high as possible and only use N number NOT saying Piaggio once on with New York. Mostly joking as New York Controllers are the best of the best and very likely all know we are turboprops.

I liked Essex when I went many years ago in the Aerostar. It was like $25/night parking, whereas TEB was like $125/night plus Port Authority costs. I'm sure it will be more today for a bigger aircraft.

@Tony - would you recommend in plane training and then recurrent at FSI or just go right to FSI for the initial?

I really hope my plane is ready before the end of the decade so I need to start planning some training.

Cleared some panhandle weather at fl410 today and ISA +7 temps. Was near end of trip and solo so not very heavy but still amazed how the plane performs up there. Was truing out 350kts. Nice to be able to stay in the sunshine and clear the weather.

It would be interesting for Brad to chime in here too as he went to initial. If I were doing it over again I'd do the initial I think. I found the ground school to be very useful and helpful in the recurrent and imagine it would have been doubly so in initial. The materials from FSI are the same for both, and you can certainly self study either way but what the instructors had to say, which is in addition to all of that was very helpful. Additionally, I found a lot of value in each sim session and there are just more in the initial.

At the same time I found training in the airplane invaluable and wouldn't miss that either.

Perhaps one way to think about it is how current you are with instrument flying and how experienced you are with the avionics systems. For me the reps on PL21 were useful and because my scan had deteriorated over the last two years of less weather flying more sim time really helped.

There is one P180 listed for sale in the U.S. on Controller at present. It has been on the market for over a year and half at least. Has an odd paint job, 6,000+ hours and listed at 2.35mm. Despite that I'm surprised it hasn't sold. Thee are 4 total worldwide listed. When I was looking there were a few more planes for sale than listed on Controller. I believe I had 20 on my list worldwide and there were 14 total on Controller with 10 U.S. and 4 in ROW.

With such a tiny sample, and no current market intel it's hard to know what's happening to values. I do know that they went up a lot in 2020 from the time Mark Wyant bought, until me, and then later in the 4th quarter when a few other sales I know about happened at much increased pricing.

I'm not selling but it makes one curious where values are. Unfortunately, since it is such an incredible airplane, those who would like one can't get one. At any price.

It would be interesting for Brad to chime in here too as he went to initial. If I were doing it over again I'd do the initial I think. I found the ground school to be very useful and helpful in the recurrent and imagine it would have been doubly so in initial. The materials from FSI are the same for both, and you can certainly self study either way but what the instructors had to say, which is in addition to all of that was very helpful. Additionally, I found a lot of value in each sim session and there are just more in the initial.

At the same time I found training in the airplane invaluable and wouldn't miss that either.

Perhaps one way to think about it is how current you are with instrument flying and how experienced you are with the avionics systems. For me the reps on PL21 were useful and because my scan had deteriorated over the last two years of less weather flying more sim time really helped.

I think it was just the Perfect Storm, for P180's. The frothy, financial exuberant times in combination with a greater discovery and acceptance of the aircraft. I could have banged on about it until the cows came home, but if Anthony hadn't actually bought one and validated it, singing its praises - who knows where it would have been still here on BT? I bet 50% of the market for the last years sales can probably be traced right back to here! Just 2 years ago, there were tons of them on the market and you could get at least 8 of them for sub-$1M. Not anymore.

It will be very interesting to see what happens to values when the financial bubble bursts (which I think is pretty soon). That will be the litmus test. My guess, a lot will end up on the market from distressed sellers.

Can’t you buy a new one?

Matt - FSI is working on some sort of Garmin training however I believe it will just be ground. They decommissioned the old Avanti I sim so it’s proline II or nothing now. Garmin training is not done yet but they at least are aware of the gap and are working on it.

I am heading down in Jan for a recurrent and will report back.

A Garmin-Avanti class would be very well received. When I talked with FSI back in February they offered a difference class for the Avanti 1, but that wasn't really helpful to lean proline 21 and then proline 2.

Hopefully as more of us ask, A Garmin setup will move up thier priority list.

Can’t you buy a new one?

It will not be the case.
The so called "preferred bidder" is a consortium of a Swedish Trust, an Italian company leader in brushless motor and electric actuation, a group of former Piaggio executives and a Swedish Electric Aircraft manufacturer.
Do you see a pattern here?
Furthermore, the latest "irrevocable bid date" is past due since a month...
Someone says the delays are due to the Italian Gov. "Golden Power" (must approve selling of strategic industries to foreign buyers), others blame the Unions (they always strongly supported selling to the Leonardo Public Company), others the lawyers involved in the contract closure. Who knows?
Will see if this "Italian Job" will end soon in something useful...

I had around 12 hours in airplane prior to Flight Safety. I think it helped quite a bit to have time in plane prior. I would go as far as saying essential for someone like me who had zero turbine time.

As to Flight Safety vs learning in aircraft I would say Flight Safety for one main reason. Engine failure on take off. Can't safely practice in airplane. Sure, you might can pull one engine at 300-500 feet and get some usefulness. Not the same as engine failure 10 feet off the ground.

Other useful scenarios:
Low level wind shear
Fire
Icing malfunctions
Depresurization
Door seal problem
Engine torching
Unusual attitudes

In ground school the instructors know and point out differences in I vs II. In airplane I would be asking instructor to program Collins most of the time If I had an Avanti I.

Even though my insurance will approve alternative training I plan on going to Flight Safety yearly.

Looking forward to a thorough ringing out in February

Edit: Engine failure on take off is exceedingly rare.
Maybe a good plan would be to train in airplane initially then do recurrent at Flight Safety

I discussed with my FSI sales guy today options for an increased training frequency and it will likely work out that a full service contract will be what I do. That would give me 2 recurrent events per year (more if I wanted) which is two weeks in W Palm. So, I'll just stay at a friends and have a good time. I could then do "Recency of Flight Experience" courses as add ons whenever. That's a takeoff/landing course with an hour in the sim. Once there I can add other hours if I want for no cost.

I'll evaluate final choices when I see what "recency" training event costs as additional sim time when not on full service is $2,500/hour.

FSI only does "courses" whereas Simcom would let you free lance sim training on their full service contract.

It got me to thinking that maybe the "recency" course would work for Avanti I Garmin guys to use the hour, do a few take offs and landings in VMC then spend another hour or two doing engine outs. It might be worth a call to FSI to see what kind of training you could cobble together on the "recency" course without having to master PL first.

The cost issue is interesting as the way FSI approaches it, according to my salesman, is that they spread their costs, whatever they are over the airframes on the market so that the planes with fewer airframes cost more. For them to do a Garmin panelled I, even if they hadn't decommissioned the other sim would have been eye watering. In fact, I'd guess they decommed the other sim after Avantair tanked as training demand tanked too.