1 AMU = 1 "Aviation Monetary Unit" or also "AU" or "Aviation Unit" = $1,000

Personally I think AU is a better term since it's also the chemical symbol for gold.

Don,

That figure is just maintenance but includes the annual inspection costs which run from around $5k to $7.5k depending on the inspection (A,B or C+). The 10 year items are expensive and drove the first "annual" costs to six figures. The next year the annual was in the high 5 figures but maintenance costs for pilot door and then a $60,000 environmental control unit failure (which precipitated a high altitude pressurization emergency I detailed here somewhere) ran the tab up. The next year was again close to 100k. This year it was about the same due to some corrosion found in the power section when I had the engine upgraded for 3500 TBO. Then there was a 15k avionics failure. In my numbers I don't include the $15k I spent to get RVSM upgrade or the HSI which ran $30k (which is an entirely expected expenditure). All that other stuff you mention was in addition. Perhaps I had an atypical experience. Two of the things that drove costs high were not to be expected. But even if you remove them maintenance costs were close to $75/hr.

Capital cost, hangar, subscriptions, etc. were as predicted. Insurance did go up substantially over the hold period but that happened to everyone. As I mentioned I was very pleased with depreciation expense which was about half of what I expected (and makes up to a degree the higher than expected maintenance expense).

Holy moly Tony, you tough the TBM was expensive wait till you get the Avanti bills.






viewtopic.php?f=49&t=110145&start=600

Tony,

That is a very nice write-up and I could plagiarise it, change a few words and even my closest friends wouldn't see anything out of line. In other words, similar experiences within each the topics.

My Legacy TBM 850 is under contract, probably going to close mid-October. I owned it for over 10 years and am selling it for 78% of what I paid for it, as you said not counting a few upgrades, notably the 5 blade prop.

I never upgraded the legacy avionics so always ended up in SimCom's 700C2 cockpit, which was fine. I transitioned from a T210 and found the "airplane" easy to fly, but learning a whole new panel was a challenge. I had many years of IFR experience but "I did not know what I didn't know" and training to a "pro" level will always be the most fond memory of flying such a capable airplane.

The first 4 years I flew 600 hours then the last 6 years 400 hours. I haven't flown at all since March. Unfortunately, I won't be moving up the chain as you are, but I am really happy for you as the new plane looks fantastic!

$100AMUs for just mx for 200 hrs / yr is eye-watering. In my cost models for the TBM, I was figuring $60-70K / yr for all mx for 200 hrs of flying, so your actuals are slightly higher than what I thought was already a big number. It sounds like your experience may be slightly above peers that you spoke with during your ownership experience. Is that the case?

I know the TBM is more capable than the Meridian from a range / performance perspective but I just can't wrap my brain around what appears to be a massive difference in ownership costs between them both. They are not dramatically different a/c but the cost to run them appear to be miles apart. I've reviewed many logbooks of Meridians and Jetprops and rarely see any mx event between annuals but clearly that is not the case with TBMs. Why the stark difference?

Don,

Mistake above when I said $75/hr. I wish!

Just to be sure we aren't misunderstanding each other the figure I gave for maintenance was all inclusive of all maintenance. In other words annuals, other scheduled and unscheduled.

As I said, in fairness, I had 2 events totaling close to $120k that probably don't happen to everyone. I had a $15k event, in the prebuy for selling the damned thing, that probably don't happen often either. And I spent about $7,000 over the years screwing with the pilot door. And $3,500 for a gear switch that shouldn't have crapped out. And a few other things...On the other hand, other guys have had other issues I'll bet. Am I high? I hope so.

There's marketing, then there is reality. I'm just sharing one ownership period reality.

[quote="Marc Bourdon"]Holy moly Tony, you tough the TBM was expensive wait till you get the Avanti bills.

Marc,

I'm not complaining just reporting the facts. I'm sure the Piaggio won't be cheap.

We're on the same page Tony. I'm talking all mx including annuals as well. In my cost model, I had $20K budgeted for annuals and $250 / hr for other mx which equates to $70K / yr for all mx events for 200 hrs / yr. I always felt that number was likely high and overly conservative but in your experience it was 30% low. I think there may be some aspects of your experience that aren't entirely typical but everyone that's owned a TBM for a period of time has very high ticket events from what it seems.

I still go back to my last question in regards to what appears to be a stark difference in overall costs between the Meridian and TBM. From an equipment, systems and size standpoint, they are similar birds but appear to have drastically different opex and mx costs. I can't wrap my brian around it.

$500/hr. in maintenance to operate a S.E.T.P. makes me appreciate my Aerostar a lot more. Thanks for sharing, Tony. If only your post had been the first one in this thread...

I thought PT6-66D TBO was always 3500, what upgrade was needed to get yours to 3500? When are they not 3500?

I thought PT6-66D TBO was always 3500, what upgrade was needed to get yours to 3500? When are they not 3500?

Manufacturers corrosion measurement and standards can be pretty arbitrary. Not an engine, but we had corrosion on gear legs. It really wasn’t substantial to our experts, but factory specs were very rigid. We traded ours in to another place that specializes in that. No problemo. We always had a third party expert review what a P&W shop recommended. Our last hot was under $20,000.

“Events” can truly cost a lot of money in the turbine world. Things break and it is not possible to ‘save’ while repairing often. Tony has learned the hard way that sometimes it helps to have an advocate when dealing with Pratt. He might not have bought the plane he bought or they might have negotiated a different solution to the problems found during HSI. While the Service Centers are great they can’t always represent you in this area. Some of the high costs he experienced were hours/month/years related and are known quantities based on the “work” sheet that the SC’s keep. Whether they are up front or not during prepurchase is the questions at times but everyone “can” know the program at this point with the TBM. My guess is some of this may not have been apparent or communicated by the seller/SC. Wish it had been. Might have purchased a different plane.

Ultimately the big items don’t usually fall on such a tight timeline as his did. In my case the depreciation was ~19% over six years. Avg $50,000/year on a Legacy 850. The Pain of Mx was similar over a longer period. Wouldn’t trade it for any other experience though...

Thanks for the great write up Tony.

The Meridian is a very simple airframe. Avionics are avionics and a Pratt is a Pratt for the most part. You can have some expensive maintenance events in a Meridian, but it is on average going to be a lot less than a TBM. For instance gear refurbishing. There are time or calendar limits on the TBM, and my understanding is that the gear is sent back to Socata, for a big chunk of money. I had heard 70K? The gear on the Meridian has no hour or cycle limits, and is fix on demand. I had my gear refurbished once, had a bad seal and shim on the right MG, after about 500 cycles, and the refurb was done at the local shop and was only $600. That included new shims and seals. May have been a little less because the plane was jacked to put on new brakes $300 and a new tire ?$1000 a side. There are expensive parts hiding in the airframe, but the reliability of those parts seem to be pretty good. Still have to go in eyes open. Maintenance on a piston Mirage and a turbine Meridian on average are in the same ballpark.

We are coming up on two years of owning our TBM 700 C2 and our maintenance costs are substantially lower than what Tony has reported. (Why isn’t there a cross Your fingers and knock on wood emoji to insert here). Our plane is a 2003 so all the ten year items were done. More important, the owners had not deferred any maintenance items. Our first annual was around $20k but included a $6k inspection which we got a credit for at the purchase. We also had to replace tires and brakes which is something I attribute to first year of ownership and a home base with 2700’ runway. We have had a couple of thousand in expenses on avionics repairs (legacy avionics); but plan on upgrading the panel next month. We have had no downtime in the TBM. 100% dispatch. Year one we had about 300 hours. This year about half of that due to COVID. (Repeat non existent emojis). When we learned the maintenance history we jumped on this plane. Just wish the prior owner took as good care of the paint as the mechanicals.