leaving at 1300 today, Pilatus does SAW to SDL in 5:35 non stop with 8 on board plus bags. I've done much longer flights than that non stop.

But again, Mark does it once a month. Not once a week. That's my point. I don't want to fly 4 hour flights every week. I'd rather move to wherever that place is that's 4 hours away. I would never have a vacation home that's 4 hours away. I'd move. I think most folks feel that way. Hence why wealthy New Yorkers build massive homes on Long Island and don't fly to the BVI's EVERY WEEK.

Caravans from NYC to BVI?

Edit

SAW to SDL right now in 5:20 in the Pilatus burning 2400Lbs at FL220 or 2100Lbs at FL280

Regardless. I apologize for the thread drift. Just always curious how often everyone flies 4+ hours vs. 2 hours.

Caravans from NYC to BVI?

Headwind at FL430 averages 18 knots right now.

Not the same winds as Mark's flight.

That day, you would be facing 60-70 knot headwinds in the 20s. Flight time pushing 7+ hours, not doable without a fuel stop in a PC-12.

Mike C.

What day Mike C are you taking about? Even in the jet it’s 4 hours. I don’t want to spend 4 hours in any plane more than 1x a month. Just like Mark.

It’s like you’re trying to manufacture a disagreement. Yes, on long flights A Pilatus sized jet is faster than a Pilatus. I still don’t want to fly 4+ hour flights every week. Once a month, I don’t mind doing it in the Pilatus. It used to take 6 months to go from Atlanta to Colorado. Now I can do it in 4 in the summer and 5.5 in the Winter. Whooopeeee!!

The day Mark took his flight.

Mike C.

What date was this post?

55 knots at 430 doesn’t mean I’d have 55knots at FL220

Regardless.... the only point I’m making is I don’t want to fly 4 hours every week in any airplane.

What date was this post?

No it doesn't. You're not the type to "generalize". Surprising.

If you spent any time reading instead of trying to flex your tiny "e nuts" you'd see I already get everywhere from in Atlanta 2 hours or less except for flights that would take 4 hours in the jet.

A few comments for the record. You can track the 30years of evolution of Cessna Citation design from the 500 through the CJ4 and Mustang to see the changes in thinking and design



The CJ/1/2 have thrust attenuators. The 1+/2+/3/4 did not need the thrust attenuators since the FADEC reduced the idle thrust on the ground

Use of avgas is not approved in Williams engines on any of the 525 models

I didn't see any allowance to burn avgas in any of the 525 series AFM or OM, nor in the TCDS.

In the TCDS for the FJ44, it says:

LIMITED USE FUEL OPERATION.
ASTM D910, Grade 100LL is approved for use on certain engine models. Refer to the Operating Instructions
identified in Note 15 for limits on duration, fuel temperature and fuel pressure.

I don't have those instructions, but use of avgas is also something the airframe has to be compatible with, so the engine allowing it isn't enough by itself.

Pending other instructions, I wouldn't use any avgas in a 525 series.

I didn't go look at every legacy Citation, but the few I checked allow up to 50 hours (3500 gallons) of avgas between overhauls per the AFM. They require fuel temperature be under 32C, ambient air be under 32C, less than 18,000 ft altitude, and boost pumps on. All that is to keep vapor pressure under control. You have to log it when done as well.

Mike C.

the CJ4 is really an entirely different airplane from a systems point of view.
I am surprised it was typed as a 525.
Some notable differences are as follows.

No inflatable door seal using 23 PSI service air
A closed hydraulic system that maintains 3000 psi
Single point fueling
Swept wing with variable speedbrake settings plus ground spoilers and no ground flaps.
External ground serviceable potty.
A much better environmental system. Separate temp controls for cockpit and cabin.
Cockpit ergonomically redesigned.
Crew Alerting system, so no rotary test or annunciator panel
Engine start stop buttons, no engine shutoff stop gate on throttles.
No mechanical trim tabs knobs or wheel
Automatic pressurization system. No pilot input necessary
One fire bottle, and it is checked through the CAS system, no visual inspection.
DC power brake hydraulic pump is located at the wing, so you no longer hear it cycling on and off.
Glass windshield. No windshield on off switch. It is powered anytime the engines are running by two AC alternators.
Much more redundant electrical system. Two DC generators supply non converted electrical power. In the event of a double generator, the AC alternators that power the windshield will supply converted DC power to the aircraft with minimum load shedding.
Much superior useful load. With full fuel, aircraft has a payload over 1300 lbs.
Much higher VMo. 305 knots