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 Post subject: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 15:33 
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I wrote an article comparing the Proline Fusion to the G1000 in the King Air, but the real debate is actually between Proline 21 and Gxxx. We have this come up in King Airs, CJ's and even Beechjets.

My personal belief is that both are great systems and that the real difference is user familiarity / preference.

I also know this forum will be weighted towards the Garmin so I may make some counterpoints for Collins to keep the discussion going, this does not in any way reflect my personal preference.

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 15:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
but the real debate is actually between Proline Fusion and Gxxx.


FIFY

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:00 
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Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?


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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?

I suspect it is more of a question how much you might spend to change a Proline 21 airplane into a G1000 airplane, and their corresponding value in the market.

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?

I suspect it is more of a question how much you might spend to change a Proline 21 airplane into a G1000 airplane, and their corresponding value in the market.


Exactly!!

Or a G1000 CJ value compared to a CJ1 w/ 3 tube PL21

The CJ3 and CJ3+ is another example.
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Last edited on 29 Jan 2018, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:28 
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Both are long in the tooth..... PL21 is even longer in the tooth.

Garmin will continue to dominate the world. There's no stopping it now.

However, I would NOT spend the money to replace PL21 with 15 year old G1000. Sell the plan with PL21 and go buy a plane that has Garmin.

My Honeywell APEX is as bland as can be but I don't care anymore. I don't even look at it. Give me a GPS and a glide slope and I'm good to go. I don't care about avionics unless said avionics are not user friendly.


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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Both are long in the tooth..... PL21 is even longer in the tooth.

Garmin will continue to dominate the world. There's no stopping it now.

However, I would NOT spend the money to replace PL21 with 15 year old G1000. Sell the plan with PL21 and go buy a plane that has Garmin.

My Honeywell APEX is as bland as can be but I don't care anymore. I don't even look at it. Give me a GPS and a glide slope and I'm good to go. I don't care about avionics unless said avionics are not user friendly.


In fairness the G1000NXi is a recent and substantial upgrade, enough so that I don't expect the G1000 to go away anytime soon. (I did think it would)

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?

Absolutely!

We went from EFIS-10 avionics to ProLine 21 on a fleet of King Air 300s.


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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:35 
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Changing an already Proline 21 equipped aircraft to G1000 would seem pointless. I suppose it's possible if budget is limitless, but you're in no man's land and I don't believe there's any STC's for such a thing let alone such thinking?

I think the GTN's play reasonably well with Proline 21's. Much easier solution than trying to scrap the PFD and MFD of the Proline 21 in favor of a wholesale change of the entire avionics package I would think? BWTHDIK?


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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?


Actually you can, the Beechjet is a good example.

We tend to think of Garmin being dominant, but the reality is they're the new kid on the block and Collins is deeply entrenched. When you get into the larger jets you see a lot more Collins or Honeywell stuff. BUT... Garmin is making some large moves in new airplanes.

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?

Absolutely!

We went from EFIS-10 avionics to ProLine 21 on a fleet of King Air 300s.


Fleet? you had more than 1 specimen to spread the experiment costs over?

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:37 
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Username Protected wrote:

In fairness the G1000NXi is a recent and substantial upgrade, enough so that I don't expect the G1000 to go away anytime soon. (I did think it would)

Well..... there are many planes being delivered with G3000.

The Garmin setup in my boat is awesome. Garmin isn't going anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
Actually you can, the Beechjet is a good example.

We tend to think of Garmin being dominant, but the reality is they're the new kid on the block and Collins is deeply entrenched. When you get into the larger jets you see a lot more Collins or Honeywell stuff. BUT... Garmin is making some large moves in new airplanes.

How many NEW airplanes are delivered with Collins?


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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
Changing an already Proline 21 equipped aircraft to G1000 would seem pointless. I suppose it's possible if budget is limitless, but you're in no man's land and I don't believe there's any STC's for such a thing let alone such thinking?

I think the GTN's play reasonably well with Proline 21's. Much easier solution than trying to scrap the PFD and MFD of the Proline 21 in favor of a wholesale change of the entire avionics package I would think? BWTHDIK?


It's not common but you do see it, especially in King Airs.

We are currently buying a PL21 350, it will receive the Blackhawk mod and it looks like the required "modernization" package from Collins may cost $200k... so for $180k more it could be G1000NXi... :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2018, 17:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can you actually retrofit Proline anything into an airplane that wasn't already Proline of some sort?


Actually you can, the Beechjet is a good example.

We tend to think of Garmin being dominant, but the reality is they're the new kid on the block and Collins is deeply entrenched. When you get into the larger jets you see a lot more Collins or Honeywell stuff. BUT... Garmin is making some large moves in new airplanes.


This is a good thing. I wasn't aware that Collins was supporting aftermarket retrofits of the Proline product offering.

Does this mean they will be offering Proline Fusion upgrades in the CJ1, CJ1+ CJ2, CJ2+ etc?

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