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19 Nov 2025, 22:47 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Stevens Aerospace (Banner)



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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
So send us the contract not your conversation , dude.


I can't, I canceled the transaction. Feel free to sign up and see for yourself.

I just did

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
I just did


And what does the contract state? Or did I miss in the back and forth....

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:25 
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Can't stop thinking about The Producers.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/HPXHRX8Q2hs[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
I just did


And what does the contract state? Or did I miss in the back and forth....

Tim

Beats me , McGee was quoting from a conversation. I am citing the Raptor website.
I just requested the escrow document.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:43 
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Escrow.com should be holding the buyers' money (in escrow) until the milestone is marked complete by Peter at which time the buyer has 3 days to accept or reject the milestone completion status. If rejected, the escrowed amount is refunded to the buyer.

Just under a year ago, deposit holders were offered the opportunity to convert their refundable deposits into non-refundable deposits in exchange for a discounted finished price, shares in the company and an opportunity to take an earlier delivery position.

This could explain the confusing comments from escrow.com.

This was the email with that offer:

Quote:
If you have been following the video log on the Raptor you will know that we have been making substantial progress on the prototype with the fuselage coming together and we're getting close to laying up all the parts of the doors. We also flew the scale model again and we're happy that the dutch roll problem has now been resolved by the addition of the wing fences and vortilons. Subsequently we have begun work on the plugs for the wings.

We now have 683 deposits in escrow. This represents over 400 new deposits in the last 12 months and we are still closing about 7 new ones per week.

Progress is happening on the engine and we hope to see it running on a stand in the coming months. The engine stand is complete and round tube for the mount has been laser cut and the jig to help assemble it is done. The belt drive reduction unit engineering design is complete and we have begun sourcing parts and machining those that are custom.

The main landing gear legs have arrived and the nose gear is being modified to fit the Raptor. We will soon be ordering the wheels and brakes from Beringer.

Our current goal is to complete the doors and frames in the next few weeks which will allow us to bond together the fuselage. We are also working hard on completing the molds for the wings and will soon move on to the foreplane plugs and molds.

In order to continue this program at the current pace we are working through the current depositors list and offering a limited number the chance to further fund the production of the Raptor prototype.

This invitation is going out to those deposit holders between position xxx and xxx. At present there are only two positions available for this offer.

The opportunity includes the 3 following items:

1) a contract guaranteeing the delivery price of $120,000 for your finished Raptor rather than just an estimated price. This is $10000 below the current estimated price for regular deposit holders of $130,000 (which is more than likely to go up).

2) 0.25% (1/4 of 1%) membership in Raptor Aircraft LLC which entitles you to share in the potential profits further down the line. You will receive a Schedule K1 each each with your share of the profit or loss. You are not responsible for any losses but you can write them off on your taxes.

3) the opportunity to move further up the line if you wish to have your aircraft sooner. Position #97 is presently available to the first person to respond

In order to take advantage of this opportunity we require that you sign a sales agreement that I can forward to you. We then require that you complete your $2000 escrow transaction so those funds transfer to us and are no longer refundable. Lastly you will need to wire or send us a check for $18,000 which takes your total deposit up to $20,000 which, at that point, is non refundable and will be used to further the construction of the Raptor prototype.



Last edited on 06 Nov 2017, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:43 
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Going through their site it appears they lay up on molds, vacuum bag then bake. The oven looks big enough to handle the fuselage.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 17:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Escrow.com should be holding the buyers' money (in escrow) until the milestone is marked complete by Peter at which time the buyer has 3 days to accept or reject the milestone completion status. If rejected, the escrowed amount is refunded to the buyer.


That's not exactly true. If the buyer rejects the milestone completion status, it goes back to the seller, who then has to agree to the refund. If he does not, it goes into a 14 day negotiation period. If nothing is agreed to then, the transaction then goes into a 14 day arbitration period.

Now, how is the arbitrator going to rule on whether a milestone is completed or not if the milestone is not defined in the transaction?

It doesn't matter what's on the Raptor website. That's what he says he will do. The escrow dot com transaction defines what he can do.

You are simply trusting him to be a man of his word. Escrow dot com will not simply return your money based on a flying prototype timeline as that is not a part of the escrow dot com transaction.

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Mike M.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 18:17 
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That email feels very scammy, you’re going to pitch me that a benefit to owning your company is capturing your losses? Lol


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 18:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
That email feels very scammy, you’re going to pitch me that a benefit to owning your company is capturing your losses? Lol


I was thinking that getting to write off 1/400th of their losses for only 20 grand would probably wind up being a good deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 18:44 
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I see this more like a Kick Starter campaign. Maybe thats what they should have done.

If I put money into a Kickstarter fund I know there is a risk that I will never see the money again. But if I believe in the company and product then I can take that risk.

I want to see these guys succeed. I have manufactured complex products and for whatever reason it never turns out to be as cheap and easy as I thought. Pretty much every project I do takes longer and cost more than it should. LOL. That being said if I knew that in the beginning I would have not started any of my projects.

I am glad these guy believe the dream and are trying. Its easy to sit back and be negative Nelly. Its the guys that take risk and try what everyone says won't work that push us forward.

If there was a KickStart or Gofund me I would throw some into the pot just to help.

Good luck guys!!

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 18:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
When the prototype flies, your escrow goes to the seller.

That only leaves 98% of the project to complete. What could go wrong?

Anybody can make a heap fly once.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 19:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
I see this more like a Kick Starter campaign. Maybe thats what they should have done.


Interesting idea: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rapt ... aircraft#/

Regarding the deposit refundability, they say this on the website as the other Michael found: "The funds will remain with Escrow.com until the prototype is flying. At that time we will publish the performance numbers and final price of the aircraft. You will either then be happy with that and stay on board or you can cancel and get a refund. The most you can lose is the $65.00 escrow fee. If you stay on board your funds will transfer to us but you will still retain the option to cancel at any time."

It is a fair question whether anything within the escrow.com process/agreement enforces that.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2017, 00:34 
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Looking through escrow.com, I don’t see the agreement to copy. It’s an open milestone agreement. It does show a “3 day inspection”. But, it is open (since September 2016) and has not transferred.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2017, 13:36 
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There is more to the milestone than just flying. They have to present the performance data as well. Once the buyer has the info he has the right to have escrow refunded.
I agree this language should be in the escrow agreement or at least referenced. Nonetheless it is probably legally binding and I see no loopholes for an arbitrator, if in fact one had to go to arbitration.
One of the house lawyers could speak up if they believe I am wrong.
I believe it is clear to both the buyers and sellers that the thing cannot possibly meet all their numbers. So when they publish performance from the prototype you can decide upon your own standards.
For me, I would be happy to,pay $175,000 for a machine that would give me 200 + kts @ 18,000 on 15 gals per hour , 1000 miles range with 800 lb payload and a10,000' cabin at fl250. That would beat hell out of anything else out there certified or not.
I would expect reasonable stall speeds and would hope it could use a 3000' runway.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2017, 13:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
There is more to the milestone than just flying. They have to present the performance data as well. Once the buyer has the info he has the right to have escrow refunded.
I agree this language should be in the escrow agreement or at least referenced. Nonetheless it is probably legally binding and I see no loopholes for an arbitrator, if in fact one had to go to arbitration.
One of the house lawyers could speak up if they believe I am wrong.
I believe it is clear to both the buyers and sellers that the thing cannot possibly meet all their numbers. So when they publish performance from the prototype you can decide upon your own standards.
For me, I would be happy to,pay $175,000 for a machine that would give me 200 + kts @ 18,000 on 15 gals per hour , 1000 miles range with 800 lb payload and a10,000' cabin at fl250. That would beat hell out of anything else out there certified or not.
I would expect reasonable stall speeds and would hope it could use a 3000' runway.


That’s what was thinking. I figured anything under $200k, pressurized with good performance, G3X Suite, safe would be a win.


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