.......and please note, I'm advocating for the Meridian here, go Meridian.........

Oh good grief Michael. Usually you put some emoticon after a comment like this so we all know you're kidding around. Sorry to be a killjoy...but I am a businessman who pays attention to what things actually cost and don't want to BS people about it with hopelessly inaccurate wild ass guesses.

My airplane is a business asset. Makes me money too. I know that because I know what it costs to run, how much time it saves, what that's worth etc.

Glad you and John are making a lot of money too!

No chance, someone's gotta get you a little fired up on a Sunday!!!

Michael,

Thanks for the info. I'm amazed at the insurance cost, only $12.5K annually for a $3million dollar aircraft. That's awesome. I based the number on my KA experience over the years, where we generally ponied up $8K for each million hull insured and $25million liability.

So $45K for annual sounds about right. Next year you're replace another expensive part

So my friends wing demate plus other 10 year items cost about $90K in Germany. What's the real honest estimate in US. I'm just not buying that you can do it for $25K, even with the lower US wages?

I've never owned a Pilatus but I did own both a Meridian and a TBM, so I'm basing overhaul costs for both from experience and there is no way you can do a big block overhaul under $450K in US.

The quoted Pilatus numbers do not include hangar and insurance, or training.

In Warranty / Out of Warranty

MAINTENANCE LABOR per flight hour 1 $56.11 $71.40
Based on 0.68 man-hours per flight hour at a labor rate of $105.00 per hour.
Includes scheduled, unscheduled and on-condition maintenance labor for
airframe and avionics.

MAINTENANCE PARTS per flight hour 1 $41.26 $88.90
Includes airframe, avionics and minor engine consumable parts required for
scheduled, unscheduled and on-condition maintenance.

PROPELLER OVERHAUL per flight hour 1 $2.83 $4.10
Includes both parts and labor required for overhaul, including the cost of any
life-limited parts.

ENGINE RESTORATION per flight hour 2 $119.16 $131.65
Based on an average of actual reported overhaul and hot section inspection costs.

DIRECT OPERATING COST LESS FUEL $219.36 $296.05

FUEL COST per flight hour $272.00 $272.00
Based on $4.25/gal @ 64.0 gph. Includes taxi, climb, cruise and descent fuel.

TOTAL DIRECT OPERATING COST PER HOUR $491.36 $568.05

Thanks for posting, looks in line with my numbers. I wonder why the engine restoration fund varies thought. Warranty should make no difference there. My $140 included prop in the costs so I'm pretty close. Amazing aircraft. Nothing else can do what it does for the $$$.

Perhaps assuming that an older plane will be saving for 2nd run overhaul?

Because the out of warranty plane has more hours on it when you buy it, so the cost per hour is higher per hour remaining to TBO.

Makes sense, thanks.

What do those of you who watch the light jet market think of the risk proposition of buying an Eclipse. Unless you mean to fly a plane to the scrap yard the continued viability of the company who builds the plane is critical.

Eclipse has had no real positive news in over a year. They laid off a lot of their factory team earlier this year as they completed the airframes under construction. Probably to be expected but it certainly isn't a great sign of strong capitalization when you lay off skilled workers in advance of building a new product. There haven't been many announcements on Canada's progress. They did not present as many of those as they expected.

The legacy planes are a confusing mishmash of avionics, equipment and capability. Some upgrade paths are totally dependent on ONE. Since avionics are completely intertwined with the airframe, and produced in extremely small numbers for each iteration the disappearance of ONE would be disastrous for owners. Unlike most jets the component parts don't have ready maintenance solution outside of ONE.

I'm not saying this is what's going to happen, and I hope it doesn't. If the Canada gets built and sold the company has a category buster and a new lease on life. That would be awesome. But when contemplating a business investment, as in the OP's case, how do you view the long term ownership risk compared to buying a Piper product? Despite Piper's erratic corporate history they seem to be in better shape.

The Eclipse is an amazing airplane, fast, economical and a hoot to fly. No potty and inconvenient baggage loading but aside from those things quite comfortable. But as I look at the business risk alone I wouldn't invest in a used Eclipse until the Canada is certified, on the market and actually being produced. What do you think?

I'd buy a Phenom 100, Mustang or SF50. I wouldn't touch an Eclipse. The Canada Eclipse will cost $4MM+.

I agree Tony.
From the past experience of others here I would not buy an Eclipse.
The worst thing you want is a plane with no support.
From reading what the OP wants to do with the aircraft I think a TBM is the right aircraft for him. That way he can do the occasional 1000 nm trip non stop vs a stop in the Meridian. From MX and resell experience that previous of my friends had with their Meridian I would say that a TBM does not cost more per hour than a Meridian when you factor in depreciation on the Meridian.
You may burn an extra 20 gph but your also going 50 kts faster in cruise with an 850.

The best deals out there are low time late model 850 with 5-600 hrs tt. Buy it and put 1000-1200 hrs on it and trade it before the HSI and 10 year mx is due on it.
I did this on my previous 700C2, my cost was $100k that I lost on it in 4.5 years and 800 hrs that I owned it. Basically I didnt have any depreciation as my cost was $125 per hr for engine usage + regular mx.

For a business asset that you can depreciate look at an higher initial purchase cost on a newer model TBM that will not need much for mx. Basically the newer TBM dont have much components that need to be overhauled under 10 years and 3500 hrs.
I am not planning to do an engine overhaul as my plan is to trade it before the HSI.

Yeah, I agree. I don't see the Eclipse having economics that are significantly (!) better than a Mustang or M2. And you can get one of those today and fly the heck out of it, probably well before the EA700 is even certified. It'll have to be significantly less expensive to make it attractive. And that seems unlikely.

On the surface Tony you would appear to be spot on. And the ownerships past performance leaves a lot to be desired, for sure. But... if you join the owners group website you will find 1) a complete turnaround on the company support 2) a very active owners group (an awesome website actually) 3) a surge in recent STC's supporting legacy planes. ADS-b solutions, Garmin navigator solutions, FIKI solutions 4) almost 300 planes having been produced.

Interesting plane. Possibly a good entry level jet. And I like buying the lowest level most non frilled plane. Probably goes back to having owned two different VW bugs: simplicity over stated. We'll see.

Just as an aside one Eclipse owner also has an R66 and a Phenom 300. That says something.

Keep in mind that if Eclipse didn't have those risks, they wouldn't be selling for 600k.