I think there's no doubt the Eclipse will cost more. Quite a bit more. Type rating, recurrent, two engines,let alone DOC. And insurance. And just being a jet. That's huge, as people have pointed out. And client perception. But I think the Eclipse will earn more. Faster, getting above some weather. I had some clients that bought an early Meridian and they had the corrosion issue which was sorta a big expense, but also had issues going very far with a load into winter frontal boundaries. Sometimes they couldn't make central Florida to Ky without stopping. Personally? I want a jet. My Baron comes too close to doing what a meridian would do. And carries more. Or close to it. And money? Much rather fly a jet. Nothing safer either.

Now you're proving my point even more...... What's your time worth? Mine isn't free. Keep wrenching on that crop duster. You're winning. Ha.

Your hot section was $5000! - nobody else gets those kind of deals. Now I'm too embarrassed to talk about my costs.

The Meridian is a hell of a value and underrated as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure the Eclipse is more money to operate but the much bigger risk is losing support.

Tony,
Great post. So true for anyone who's time away from work costs money. For someone retired perhaps not so much but I hope to never retire.

There are so many factors that go into the cost of owning a turbine. My summary Before purchase I think everyone has to have some idea of what it is going to cost. I asked some of my friends on MMOPA privately and publicly. What I am hearing for the average flyer 150-200 hrs/year. Everyone is pretty comfortable with $500/hr all in. The more you fly the lower the hourly cost. Rare exceptions happen, especially if you have timed maintenance like a hot-section looming. DOC's with cheap fuel like we have right now put the DOC's of a Meridian around $350-$400/hr. The biggest costs are cost of capital and depreciation. Never sell, and you never factor depreciation. Cost of capital is unique to each individual, some would have even lost that money that they would have invested in their plane. Business and tax advantage is unique. Opportunity cost for those that make money by physically working is unique. In no alternate universe can you fly a similarly sized twin jet for the DOC of a SETP, but the Eclipse is still quite efficient.

You can believe what you want, however, Meridian really does cost much less than TBM/Pilatus:

-small block PT6, about half to overhaul vs 60 series engine

-36gph burn vs 55gph

-you can repair the entire Garmin G1000/G3000 system for what you pay annually for avionics warranty. Look at Garmin's flat rate repair costs. Even if all 3 screens somehow die, Garmin will fix for under $6000. Honeywell will charge you that much just to tell you they are not repairable.

-lots standard off the shelf parts on Meridian vs lots of custom machined parts on Pilatus/TBM, someone here mentioned brakes for few hundred bucks. How much are they on a PC12 again? Take a look at Piper vs Pilatus/TBM parts pricing. 3x and yes, both have considerably more complicated systems than a Meridian. Take a look at the flap system alone. Or landing gear. Or engine air intake. There is just less systems and they are simpler. Piper is just not trying to get that last 20knots to 30knots possible with more complex flap systems, intake systems, etc. Even the emergency oxygen system has considerably less complexity.

-fits in a standard large twin hangar, even TBM has issues here with the tall tail

-less intensive maintenance schedule

You can comfortably run a Meridian all in for $75K to $85K a year for 150 hours, including everything.

$24K for fuel (40gph block x 150 x $4)

$25K-$35K for maintenance (maybe two extra $40K events during first 3600 hours)

$4K for annual training
$6K for hangar
$2K for databases and XM
$12K for insurance

There is no other turboprop that can be run at this price level. PC12/TBM will be twice as much, KA200 about 3 times if you're only running it 150hours annually. Meridian fills a very specific niche that no other turboprop can touch.

A turbine crop duster can.

Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed, no bs explanation.

Yup, great post Rick, I'm a big fan of the Piper line, especially the Meridian...............being a Vero based company has it's merits too. I'm most probably going Piper with my next airplane purchase.

The reason for my cost savings on the HSI, was BECAUSE I got with Craig first. He explained to me what/how to get a HSI done by folks that work on them all the time, are no bs, upcharge type folks, and who do great work.

As to the OP's post. Regardless of what killjoy Tony C states, airplanes, especially business airplanes make you money. Setup correctly, they make you a ton of money. In my case I cannot fly commercial reliably from my spot here 'over the rainbow'.........

John L is in the same boat as me. We use our birds to grow our businesses.......he's kicking my tail at the moment, but it's not a race

I recently got some Pilatus operating costs for a client directly from the horses mouth (Pilatus), assuming 300/hr/yr usage.

Hourly op costs for a new PC-12 NG (in warranty), a used PC-12 NG (out of warranty), and a Legacy PC-12. The 10 year inspection is in the $25,000 ballpark (wing de-mate).

TOTAL DIRECT OPERATING COST PER HOUR $491.36 $568.05 $600.01

Charter rate for Boise based PC-12 is $1275 per hour (that includes pilot and fuel). Charter rate for Porterville, CA based PC-12 is $1400 per hour (that includes pilot and fuel).

A fully equipped 2017 PC-12 NG is $4,950,000. Used NG with 1370 hours is currently under contract for $3,200,000.

Adam how much do these numbers change based on 100 hours per year.
That's all a lot owners will fly for personal use.
Jason and Micheal are exceptions, they fly a lot for personal use.

Never ask a barber if you need a haircut. Instead of calling Pilatus, I'd call a few shops around that performed the demate before and ask if they'd do it for $25K.

$600 an hour is insanely low considering that HSI and Overhaul are going to be around $140 an hour, plus $15K annually for avionics warranty (and you need it as nobody at Honeywell will even call you back if you don't), so call it 50 an hour for 300 hours a year. So that leaves you with $400 an hour or so for fuel, maintenance and parts, subtract $260 an hour for block fuel, leaving you with $140, that's $42,000 a year. Even in the boondocks, half of that will be eaten by hangar rent, the other half by insurance, leaving no money for maintenance.

That charter rate minus pilot cost is probably closer to reality. If they are renting a PC12 for $1275 an hour, they do not own it. Monthly note on a new PC12NG is just over $50K amortized over 10 years. That's $2000 an hour alone if it's flying 300 hours a year. I never understood the economics of most of charter businesses out there. I've been approached multiple times over my lifetime to put my aircraft on charter, but it never seemed worth it for the wear, tear and hourly depreciation.

Rick,

Couple of things, and I don't believe that Adam's numbers are off. Mine are actually lower, but I have a higher utilization. HAPP for avionics is 13k and MPP is 7k. Those cover practically anything that breaks avionics, including servo's, pressure controller's etc. All parts are insanely expensive if purchased without the programs. I'd just call it what it is, a 'toll' to fly a Pilatus.

The hourly for HSI and overhaul are most probably a little high for the 67P, but that engine is a very, very good one. I believe that before I'm ready for the overhaul, they'll have a fixed price overhaul.

Your average fuel price for JetA is way off, I'm less than $3.40 an hour but I fly long legs and only buy cheap fuel.

I'm in Charles' camp on the Garmin, whilst I love the Apex, I would prefer Garmin's repair costs. I think that Honeywell will struggle mightily in the next 10 years as technology leapfrogs their system. My Ipad with an aviation app is better than Garmin, Honeywell and any other put together.

The PC12 is a legitimate 1900mile airplane with 10 seats.......it can land practically anywhere, and it's a solid bird with great features to make it very pilot friendly. It's way, way easier to fly than my Baron. The NG is very well integrated with avionics, engine, airframe all operating as one.

I speak very, very highly of it, even though I own one. Simply amazing airplane. Truly amazing.

We'll see the Denali come out with a superior engine and P&W will up their game. Texas Turbines will be putting a TPE -14 on the airframe and that will increase speeds to 300knts, 10-20% less fuel flow. Those are game changing numbers. The airframe itself has been very well put together.........very well. Well friggin designed.

So on 300 hour annual basis:

So HAPP and MPP are then $66 an hour,
fuel is then $220 an hour, so my numbers are not that far off ($3.40)

My engine hours are based on $500K for overhaul and HSI is $140 an hour.

So we are at $426 before any maintenance, subscriptions, training, insurance and hangar.

Insurance: $25,000 annually
Hangar: $21,600
Training: $12,000
DBs: $3,000

$205 an hour

So a total of $631 before maintenance.

What are you and Jason spending annually on maintenance in addition to HAPP and MPP?

My estimate would be between $30K and $60K depending on the year and calendar items, let's average to $45K, another $150 an hour, so closer to $800 an hour for the aircraft.

Throw in another few hundred per flight in FBO fees and $1000 an hour that Jason has quoted is pretty dead on the money.

It's still an amazing deal to move 8 people in large cabin comfort, but explain to me how the charter operation is making money?

Charter is a way to generate cash flow for the owner (of the plane); it may not be profitable long term. The operator just takes a mgmt fee.

My insurance is way, way lower (thanks Tom H), Hangar is right, training off by 1/2 and I fly with Shane J and Dave B.

As noted in many posts, I don't do expensive FBO fees. Your overhaul is way too high IMHO, you're using P&W most probably and throwing them the keys and taking them to dinner. I'm a little more frugal.

My annual was 45k last year. But I corrected every issue and replaced my Air conditioning unit.

I'm around 400-450 hrs a year of flight time. I suspect that most charter operations are above that number.

Agreed on the PC12 ability, amazing airplane.