09 Jul 2025, 09:20 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane  Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 15:27 |
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Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +940
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Username Protected wrote: ... it makes a King Air look weak.
Chip, you are really making friends today!  
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 16:05 |
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Joined: 01/21/09
Posts: 693
Post Likes: +40
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: MU-2B-60
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Username Protected wrote:
Merlin III line
cabin width 5'-0"
cabin height 4'-9"
pressurized fuselage length 29'-6"
cockpit & cabin length 22'-9"
cabin length 17'-5"
You could argue the Merlin is in a class of its own. It's the only plane I look at and wonder if I should have bought one instead of what I have.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 16:06 |
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Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Username Protected wrote:
Merlin III line
cabin width 5'-0"
cabin height 4'-9"
pressurized fuselage length 29'-6"
cockpit & cabin length 22'-9"
cabin length 17'-5"
You could argue the Merlin is in a class of its own. It's the only plane I look at and wonder if I should have bought one instead of what I have.
It is an excellent platform. Like other tprops, it needs another 200 knots and 20,000'.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 16:23 |
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Joined: 12/04/09
Posts: 356
Post Likes: +149
Aircraft: Dakota
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Username Protected wrote: Chip, you are really making friends today! Wow its great to see the 'Pack Mentality' gain a stronghold on beech talk, a site formerly known for its civility and class- Wolves have never enjoyed such a devouring. I'm not sure why one can't express their opinions without ridicule? As someone pointed out earlier, the market is one of the sharpest tools with relation to aircraft value there is. Its efficient. There are no "freebies" in aviation that I can see. You want to convince the world the Merlin is the greatest plane ever, flies this fast, this far, huge cabin, has everything going for it... Why do they sit on the market for 18 months to 3 years?? Asking prices pushing lower and lower? Dig below the surface and beyond web forums and you'll have your answer- To those that have found the Golden Goose, hooray!  MU-2's should rule the World in your mind? Great but Beech probably sold 10 KingAirs for every MU2 produced in those same years so what.... Don't need to go into meltdown when someone offers a different view... 
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 17:01 |
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Joined: 08/08/12
Posts: 1445
Post Likes: +940
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Easy there Lance. I think Chip knows I'm funnin' with him.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 18:47 |
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Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Username Protected wrote: Chip, you are really making friends today! Wow its great to see the 'Pack Mentality' gain a stronghold on beech talk, a site formerly known for its civility and class- Wolves have never enjoyed such a devouring. I'm not sure why one can't express their opinions without ridicule? As someone pointed out earlier, the market is one of the sharpest tools with relation to aircraft value there is. Its efficient. There are no "freebies" in aviation that I can see. You want to convince the world the Merlin is the greatest plane ever, flies this fast, this far, huge cabin, has everything going for it... Why do they sit on the market for 18 months to 3 years?? Asking prices pushing lower and lower? Dig below the surface and beyond web forums and you'll have your answer- To those that have found the Golden Goose, hooray! MU-2's should rule the World in your mind? Great but Beech probably sold 10 KingAirs for every MU2 produced in those same years so what.... Don't need to go into meltdown when someone offers a different view...
Lance, why does any airplane sit on the market for a long time? Not every Merlin listed on controller is actually for sale, as some BT members have found out. I know of several that have sold of market completely.
From what I've seen of asking prices Merlins, MU2's, Commanders have held steady. C441 have come down as have KA200's. This is from 5 years worth of watching these late 70's early 80's aircraft.
You seem to know something about Merlins that I don't. I'd be interested in hearing it. I only wish there were web forums where I could find information back when I was shopping. Instead I phoned every Merlin mechanic, pilot and operator I could locate and then visited some of them to get a first hand knowledge of the plane.
People correcting falsehoods about a type they know is not what I would call meltdown mode. You know, you can't be careful enough nowadays with all the fake news thrown about.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 21:16 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8160
Post Likes: +10517
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Chip, you are really making friends today! Wow its great to see the 'Pack Mentality' gain a stronghold on beech talk, a site formerly known for its civility and class- Wolves have never enjoyed such a devouring. I'm not sure why one can't express their opinions without ridicule? As someone pointed out earlier, the market is one of the sharpest tools with relation to aircraft value there is. Its efficient. There are no "freebies" in aviation that I can see. You want to convince the world the Merlin is the greatest plane ever, flies this fast, this far, huge cabin, has everything going for it... Why do they sit on the market for 18 months to 3 years?? Asking prices pushing lower and lower? Dig below the surface and beyond web forums and you'll have your answer- To those that have found the Golden Goose, hooray! MU-2's should rule the World in your mind? Great but Beech probably sold 10 KingAirs for every MU2 produced in those same years so what.... Don't need to go into meltdown when someone offers a different view...
Lance,
You're pretty much spot on, especially about the market. I understand that once an aircraft falls out of favor the owners become defensive... I also understand that sometimes it feels damned unfair. Sometimes perfectly good airplanes fall out of favor for no reason. Look at the Westwind... what an airplane... it's cousin the Astra... even my beloved Lear 35A's are just not very desirable.
 Here I go again... Merlins and MU2's have fallen out of favor... there just isn't much of a market left... you can give me grief... defend them vehemently... but that is just the facts.
_________________
Winners don’t whine.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 21:25 |
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 7357
Post Likes: +4088
Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
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Username Protected wrote: Here I go again... Merlins and MU2's have fallen out of favor... there just isn't much of a market left... you can give me grief... defend them vehemently... but that is just the facts. Who's up??  Mu2 sell very well. Insured 5 new buyers this year. I don't do a lot of Merlins or Tc so not sure on those.
_________________
Tom Johnson-Az/Wy
AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance
Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com
C: 602-628-2701
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 21:44 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8160
Post Likes: +10517
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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To be fair here's a list of airplanes that for the most part have fallen out of favor with aircraft buyers.
Beechcraft King Air 90, A90, B90, 100, & A100
Mits Diamond IA / Beechjet 400
Bombardier Challenger 600, 601-1A
Citation 500, Citation III
Fairchild Merlin IIB, III, IIIA, IIIB, IIIC, IV, 300, Metro II, II, 23
Falcon 10, 100, 20C,D,E,F,-5, 200
Astra 1125,SP,SPX
Gulfstream G1, GII, GIIB, GIII
Hawker 125-400A,AS, 600A,AS, 700A
Hawker Beechcraft 4000
Westwind 1124, 1124 1, 1124A 2
Learjet 23, 24,A,B,C,D,E,F 25,B,C,D,G, 31,A 35,A, 36,A, 55,B,C
Mitsubishi MU2-F,G,J,K,L,M,N,P Solitare & Marquise
Twin Commander 690,A
I am sure I could add a few more... just as I am sure there are folks that think there are airplanes on this list that shouldn't be.
_________________
Winners don’t whine.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 21:48 |
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Joined: 05/29/09
Posts: 4166
Post Likes: +2987
Company: Craft Air Services, LLC
Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: To be fair here's a list of airplanes that for the most part have fallen out of favor with aircraft buyers.
Beechcraft King Air 90, A90, B90, 100, & A100
Mits Diamond IA / Beechjet 400
Bombardier Challenger 600, 601-1A
Citation 500, Citation III
Fairchild Merlin IIB, III, IIIA, IIIB, IIIC, IV, 300, Metro II, II, 23
Falcon 10, 100, 20C,D,E,F,-5, 200
Astra 1125,SP,SPX
Gulfstream G1, GII, GIIB, GIII
Hawker 125-400A,AS, 600A,AS, 700A
Hawker Beechcraft 4000
Westwind 1124, 1124 1, 1124A 2
Learjet 23, 24,A,B,C,D,E,F 25,B,C,D,G, 31,A 35,A, 36,A, 55,B,C
Mitsubishi MU2-F,G,J,K,L,M,N,P Solitare & Marquise
Twin Commander 690,A
I am sure I could add a few more... just as I am sure there are folks that think there are airplanes on this list that shouldn't be. Wow, that's my wish list. You been reading Santa's mail?
_________________
Who is John Galt?
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 22:00 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8160
Post Likes: +10517
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Here I go again... Merlins and MU2's have fallen out of favor... there just isn't much of a market left... you can give me grief... defend them vehemently... but that is just the facts. Who's up?? Mu2 sell very well. Insured 5 new buyers this year. I don't do a lot of Merlins or Tc so not sure on those.
38 MU2's were sold in the last 12 months... 40 Turbo Commanders... 769 King Airs...
And... to my surprise 37 Westwinds sold in the same time frame, even though the fleet is half the size of the Mits fleet.
It would take a lot deeper research to determine what these numbers actually represent... i.e. did all 37 Westwinds go to the junkyard?
But... the point is a lot of these legacy aircraft are just not popular anymore. It's not something to be defensive about... it's just reality.
I think most people suffer from perception and environment, I'm immersed in a broad spectrum of aircraft... so my perspective is a little different.
I'm not as narrow minded as the "new" airplane guys... they think we are all crazy. I was on a conference call with one of my clients and a salesperson from Textron, we were talking about CJ2+'s... my client asked about Bravos... the sales guy's response... "Sir, you could buy one... but you'd be the last owner"
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Winners don’t whine.
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 22:10 |
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Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Username Protected wrote: Chip, you are really making friends today! Wow its great to see the 'Pack Mentality' gain a stronghold on beech talk, a site formerly known for its civility and class- Wolves have never enjoyed such a devouring. I'm not sure why one can't express their opinions without ridicule? As someone pointed out earlier, the market is one of the sharpest tools with relation to aircraft value there is. Its efficient. There are no "freebies" in aviation that I can see. You want to convince the world the Merlin is the greatest plane ever, flies this fast, this far, huge cabin, has everything going for it... Why do they sit on the market for 18 months to 3 years?? Asking prices pushing lower and lower? Dig below the surface and beyond web forums and you'll have your answer- To those that have found the Golden Goose, hooray! MU-2's should rule the World in your mind? Great but Beech probably sold 10 KingAirs for every MU2 produced in those same years so what.... Don't need to go into meltdown when someone offers a different view...
So where does the B200 that has been for sale for over 24 months and is advertising a price reduction in the add fit into your scheme?
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 22:46 |
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Joined: 12/04/09
Posts: 356
Post Likes: +149
Aircraft: Dakota
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Username Protected wrote: Wow its great to see the 'Pack Mentality' gain a stronghold on beech talk, a site formerly known for its civility and class- Wolves have never enjoyed such a devouring. I'm not sure why one can't express their opinions without ridicule? As someone pointed out earlier, the market is one of the sharpest tools with relation to aircraft value there is. Its efficient. There are no "freebies" in aviation that I can see. You want to convince the world the Merlin is the greatest plane ever, flies this fast, this far, huge cabin, has everything going for it... Why do they sit on the market for 18 months to 3 years?? Asking prices pushing lower and lower? Dig below the surface and beyond web forums and you'll have your answer- To those that have found the Golden Goose, hooray! MU-2's should rule the World in your mind? Great but Beech probably sold 10 KingAirs for every MU2 produced in those same years so what.... Don't need to go into meltdown when someone offers a different view... So where does the B200 that has been for sale for over 24 months and is advertising a price reduction in the add fit into your scheme?
You tell me Erwin... What did your Falsehood Correcting Professor say? 
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Post subject: Re: Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane Posted: 07 Mar 2017, 23:45 |
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Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5781
Post Likes: +7189
Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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If you disparage a Vtail, a owner will quickly come along to defend it. Same with an A36, B36, Lear, Astra, ect, ect. Its just human nature to defend ones choices, whether that be planes, cars, trucks, women...... No one wants to admit that someone else might not like what they have, or that they may not have made a wise financial choice. I, and everyone that I know, do the same thing. Why be so defensive? Why cant we all just accept that we like what we like, and others do the same? Why cant we all just get along?? 
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