26 Jun 2025, 14:47 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang?  Posted: 28 Jan 2017, 22:48 |
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Joined: 08/20/09
Posts: 2537
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry for all the duplicate posts. Seems like the server was hiccuping as Andrew and I were trying to post a message. Happened on several threads... 
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Jack
N441M N107XX
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 00:44 |
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Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 927
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Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: C525,C25A,C25C,CL604
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Username Protected wrote: Sorry for all the duplicate posts. Seems like the server was hiccuping as Andrew and I were trying to post a message. Sorry guys. Andrew
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 16:12 |
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Joined: 01/11/16
Posts: 462
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Aircraft: Bonanza G36
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Username Protected wrote: Every 36 months inspection, 100K. I would say $50K and up. There is a low utilization inspection program that extends the Phase 5 from 36 months to 72 months. http://www.baconaviation.com/citation-luip.html
Absolutely correct IF your FSDO accepts the program. Average period between application and acceptance is 180 days in the US network. And some FSDO's will not accept that program, period. And it's operator specific, so when you go to sell, the airplane is grounded until the FSDO accepts the new operators inspection program, OR they do a Phase 1-5.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 16:52 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
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Username Protected wrote: I would say $50K and up. There is a low utilization inspection program that extends the Phase 5 from 36 months to 72 months. http://www.baconaviation.com/citation-luip.htmlAbsolutely correct IF your FSDO accepts the program. Average period between application and acceptance is 180 days in the US network. And some FSDO's will not accept that program, period. And it's operator specific, so when you go to sell, the airplane is grounded until the FSDO accepts the new operators inspection program, OR they do a Phase 1-5.
I would think if the last Phase 1-5 is within the last 36 months then the buyer can fly it.
If the last phase 1-5 is not fairly recent then it should be done as part of the pre-purchase inspection. That resets the clock and back to the Cessna Progressive Inspection Program. Then the new buyer can work with Bacon and apply to his FSDO for the low utilization program.
The onus is on the seller to deliver an airworthy flyable aircraft.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 18:30 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
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Username Protected wrote: And some FSDO's will not accept that program, period. Please provide examples of FSDO rejection. I had the impression that if you submitted a proper program, they got accepted pretty much universally. If it got rejected, it was due to procedural or technical issues outside the norm. Bacon says have had their LUIP accepted at 50 FSDOs. There are 77 FSDOs in the US. At best, they have only tried in 50 FSDOs and have a 100% success rate. At worst, they have a 65% success rate with the FSDOs. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 18:40 |
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Joined: 01/11/16
Posts: 462
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Aircraft: Bonanza G36
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Username Protected wrote: And some FSDO's will not accept that program, period. Please provide examples of FSDO rejection. I had the impression that if you submitted a proper program, they got accepted pretty much universally. If it got rejected, it was due to procedural or technical issues outside the norm. Bacon says have had their LUIP accepted at 50 FSDOs. There are 77 FSDOs in the US. At best, they have only tried in 50 FSDOs and have a 100% success rate. At worst, they have a 65% success rate with the FSDOs. Mike C.
Rejected at Reno and Helena FSDO's. The only two that I have tried. Understand it to have been accepted in San Jose and Milwaukee.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 18:42 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: Rejected at Reno and Helena FSDO's. The Bacon program, straight up? Reasons given? Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 18:52 |
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Joined: 01/11/16
Posts: 462
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Aircraft: Bonanza G36
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Username Protected wrote: Rejected at Reno and Helena FSDO's. The Bacon program, straight up? Reasons given? Mike C.
Yes, straight up. The (Reno) maintenance inspector didn't approve non-factory maintenance programs, as a practice. His words "it's more liability than I need to be taking on. What benefit is there for the FAA to do so?" and that was that, because it needs to be approved by the FSDO that covers the aircrafts base. The Helena inspector, I don't know the reason as I wasn't as involved with that application package.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 19:08 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
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Username Protected wrote: The (Reno) maintenance inspector didn't approve non-factory maintenance programs, as a practice. His words "it's more liability than I need to be taking on. What benefit is there for the FAA to do so?" How does accepting the program change his or the FAA's liability? His argument logically concludes with the Reno FSDO grounding all planes in their territory. After all, what benefit are flying planes to the FAA? The FAA is supposed to provide benefits to the people, not the other way around. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 29 Jan 2017, 21:42 |
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Joined: 09/02/09
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Username Protected wrote:
The FAA is supposed to provide benefits to the people, not the other way around.
Mike C.
Agree. But people with lifetime employment who can't be fired as a practical matter take a different view.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 16:29 |
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Username Protected wrote: The FAA is supposed to provide benefits to the people, not the other way around.
Mike C. But, that flies in the face of the FAA motto, "We're not happy until you're not happy."
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 18:01 |
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Username Protected wrote: This one on Controller is now down to $750k. One hell of a bargain for a jet with FJ44s... http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... tation-500I posted this link about a month ago and it was $950k. Unfortunately it's a straight 500, not a 501. From what I understand, the hoops required for a non-jet guy (me) to go through to get a SP waiver would be prohibitive. Also doesn't have the aft baggage mod, but I guess you could always add that. BTW, nicely done video by the broker. Robert
Robert (or anyone)-
What are the hoops that one must jump thru to get an SP waiver on a C500 vs a C501? I realize that many (all?) of the 501s came out SP, but would like to know what a new owner would have to do to get SP certified to fly this '75 C500.
TIA.
Jay
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 18:27 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote:
What are the hoops that one must jump thru to get an SP waiver on a C500 vs a C501? I realize that many (all?) of the 501s came out SP, but would like to know what a new owner would have to do to get SP certified to fly this '75 C500.
TIA.
Jay
You don't need a Single Pilot Wavier for a 501, only a 500. For. 501 if you get your type rating with a co-pilot you will be limited to crew only. If you get your type rating as a single pilots you have an unrestricted CE500 type rating. For a 500 first you get a CE-500 crew type rating. Then there are a few places where you can get a Single Pilot Wavier. This is an example of one of them http://floridaflightcenter.com/product/ce-500-single-pilot-exemption/You take their course with another type rating checkride, this time flying as a single pilot. You need to meet these requirements for the course: Pilot Requirements: 1st or 2nd class Medical Have ATP or Commercial Certificate CE-500 Type Rating At Least 1000 Hours Total Time 50 Hours of Night Flight 75 Hours Instrument (40 actual) 500 Hours as PIC or SIC in Turbine Powered Airplanes Then you need to renew your SPW with them annually with a check ride Note that the SPW is valid only in the USA.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 850, Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang? Posted: 30 Jan 2017, 19:05 |
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Joined: 07/24/14
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Username Protected wrote:
What are the hoops that one must jump thru to get an SP waiver on a C500 vs a C501? I realize that many (all?) of the 501s came out SP, but would like to know what a new owner would have to do to get SP certified to fly this '75 C500.
TIA.
Jay
You don't need a Single Pilot Wavier for a 501, only a 500. For. 501 if you get your type rating with a co-pilot you will be limited to crew only. If you get your type rating as a single pilots you have an unrestricted CE500 type rating. For a 500 first you get a CE-500 crew type rating. Then there are a few places where you can get a Single Pilot Wavier. This is an example of one of them http://floridaflightcenter.com/product/ce-500-single-pilot-exemption/You take their course with another type rating checkride, this time flying as a single pilot. You need to meet these requirements for the course: Pilot Requirements: 1st or 2nd class Medical Have ATP or Commercial Certificate CE-500 Type Rating At Least 1000 Hours Total Time 50 Hours of Night Flight 75 Hours Instrument (40 actual) 500 Hours as PIC or SIC in Turbine Powered Airplanes Then you need to renew your SPW with them annually with a check ride Note that the SPW is valid only in the USA.
I seem to remember reading pilots of SP Citations first getting their type rating, but it not including SP approval/certification and then following up adding SP approval/certification. Sounds a lot like what a C500 SP pilot has to do.
Ok, just re-read what you wrote. If a C501 pilot gets his type rating single pilot then he is unrestricted SP. For your CJ2+ and similar, do most [NEW] pilots go straight to the SP type rating? Again, I remember you (or someone?) talking about new pilots getting the type rating (crew) first and then going back and getting the SP approval. Maybe it was insurance related.
At any rate, doing it in that progression seems to be very similar to what a C500 pilot is having to do.
Is it correct to say the real difference between operating a C500 SP vs a C501 SP is that foreign countries don't recognize the waiver?
And I realize that type ratings don't require an annual checkride, but most jet pilots get annual recurrent training, so there doesn't appear to be a lot of difference between the 2 with regard to annual training time & expense.
Thanks for your info.
Jay
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