How do I fly EGNE to PEDIG? Say the weather is 400 ft overcast.


Where can I find a depiction of this STAR?


If the costs to use LSGG are reasonable enough, then the LSGL option is not that interesting. This is particularly true considering that I need to depart Sunday afternoon even into low IMC.


Bex LSGB is a 2300 ft grass strip, only 1500 ft between the displaced thresholds. Mostly gliders from what I can see. Not appropriate for an MU2 on a schedule.

Mike C.

It is 197 KTAS and FL180. These should go in the Speed and Altitude boxes. This is an example for an A36TN not for an MU2. You would need to input the MU2 cruise speeds, climb speeds, descent etc into Autorouter, would take about half an hour or so.
In some countries the upper airways start at FL195 and above, in others at FL245 and above. I haven't flown much above FL200 since selling the Duke in 1993, life was much more simple then.

How do I fly EGNE to PEDIG? Say the weather is 400 ft overcast.

EGNE is uncontrolled. You would probably ask for an Airways joining clearance through Gamston Radio. You can fly in IMC without any clearance in the UK as long as you stay outside of controlled airspace. Best to get the clearance while still on the ground; London Info can get it for you in the air. About 15 NM after departure from EGNE you will enter Daventry CTA (class Alpha) on the way to PEDIG, once inside the Daventry CTA you may be cleared to DTY direct.

I don't know what that means.

Does that mean I call the airport operator over the radio and they can call someone in ATC and get a clearance for me before I takeoff? What in the US would be a void time clearance?


On that route, EGNE to PEDIG, what altitudes and routes stay clear of controlled airspace? It looked like to me that would need to be under 2500 MSL for at least some portion of that which is kind of ridiculous for an MU2.


Describe the process of doing that in detail. Is it done by phone, radio, who is contacted, what info do you get, what limits are there on the clearance, etc?

Mike C.

I don't know what that means. >>The callsign 'Radio' means it is not a control tower. They are very likely to help you get a clearance before takeoff but have no authority to issue a clearance themselves, only relay.

Does that mean I call the airport operator over the radio and they can call someone in ATC and get a clearance for me before I takeoff? What in the US would be a void time clearance? >>Probably similar, most likely Gamston Radio would do the telephone work and pass the clearance over the radio.


On that route, EGNE to PEDIG, what altitudes and routes stay clear of controlled airspace? It looked like to me that would need to be under 2500 MSL for at least some portion of that which is kind of ridiculous for an MU2. >> better to have the clearance before takeoff. You can then fly straight to PEDIG after establishing radio contact with ATC directly or London Info indirectly who will co-ordinate.


Describe the process of doing that in detail. Is it done by phone, radio, who is contacted, what info do you get, what limits are there on the clearance, etc?
>>I suppose you will have landed there and want to depart. I would go up to the tower and have a chat with the man/woman manning the radio. They should know the procedure to get the clearance. You need to have a CFMU approved flight plan first, no errors, and then start the flight. Usually you will get many shortcuts enroute. Around the really busy places like London and Paris, expect some ATC detours, depending on Flight Level requested.

Mike C.

Europe seems to have a lot of local ad hoc processes like this, not well documented.


And if you can't get one, then what? Do I not go, or do I wander around in class G at 2000 MSL in IMC, hoping I don't hit anything or anyone else?


Ditto on the local procedure comment.

In the US, you call one published nationwide phone number and you can get an IFR clearance from a farm field.

Mike C.

You have to remember that Europe is still 27 separate countries with 27 separate CAAs each doing their own thing and very slowly growing together with EASA oversight.
On the other hand, there is probably no place in the world where you can see so many different cultures and civilisations in less than 3 hours Bonanza flight time.
Three hours flying to the north, I am in Scandinavia, three hours to the south in Barcelona, three hours to the west in Ireland, three hours to the east in Prague. Why do you expect all to be the same?

Yes, some things are different compared to the U.S. but really nothing that is not to handle when it occurs.

You depart with an I flight plan you get your clearance from the tower on ground.
You depart with a Z flight plan you depart VFR and once in the air you call ATC "N1234 airborne, Z flight plan to XXXX request IFR pick up" and you get your IFR clearance.
With RocketRoute you can file a flight plan as fast and easy as you can do it with foreflight. Don't care about the airways in the flight plan. Expect in 99% shortcuts and directs. The rest is procedure flying as you are used to.
I can't remember even one single flight plan flight in 25 years.

Which says the whole "guess a route" process is just a ridiculous waste.

In the US, the process is reversed. File direct, let the computers tell you what they want. Even when they produce a full route clearance, you rarely fly it as well.

Mike C.

You've said you're not taking plane to Europe, so why are we still talking about this? So you can complain about how bad the Euro system is compared to the US one? So don't go. You don't have to fly there.

Because it is interesting in its own right whether it applies to me or not.

Mike C.

Fundamentally, you are admitting that IFR in Europe is not nearly as useful as it is in the US, and thus requires an "attitude" which does not expect the same utility, safety, simplicity, or economy.


Don't hate me for making that decision.

The TGV, Eurostar, and local airlines will allow us to travel.

But I will find a way to fly in Europe, which is not the same as travel by GA in Europe. Now I am looking for something VFR, slow, fun, etc.

Mike C.

It looks like most of your questions have been answered. I have made a 10 xings biggest twin a beech 56TC. I have a good friend in Germany who flies a B55 and is very knowledeagble on all of Europe and will be happy to help on that end I also here rdykes01@comcast.net

Richard Dykes - What a small world !

You came over to Paris to help me put my Cessna Cardinal RG on FAA reg in about 1999 or so .

I have since got my A&P the IA tickets and do alot of Inpsections, and various consulting to FAA reg'd planes here in Europe.

I still have the Cardinal, as well as a Columbia 300 and a Centurion.

You still come over now and again ?

Not to hijack a thread... But in the interest of returning some positivity to this, as I'm cool with the differences and I don't expect it to be just like the US (my first PPL was an EASA/UK license).
I'm leaning towards taking my new to me Turbo Commander 690A over to Europe in a few months. I've flown in Europe, but mostly VFR, in slow planes, in the UK, France and the Channel Islands. I'm likely to be based out of France and the UK.
Any tips from the locals? Any thoughts on the crossing? Thinking of doing it with an experienced ferry pilot.