Poking around I noticed there's an outfit (or at least a guy) near Houston that is offering what they are calling a SIC Type Rating for the Cessna citation CE500. It appears to me that the guy is operating part 91 and may simply be selling the right seat rather than let it go empty. He literally says "I've got trips in April 22, 23, ....."

Clever.

Worth it?

I wonder how many hours rt seat you fly for the price quoted? sounds like fun.

You can get a PIC type rating in a CI for 3k plus plane.

What do you think the plus plane comes out to?

I think this is just a ride along gig but he'll also get you a (probably pretty useless) sic rating. May be fun for a lark, and make my citation purchase 5 years from now an easier transition

If you own one, just JetA. Otherwise, around 1000-1100/hr

Mostly just familiarization by PIC, paperwork to feds, PIC signs as an instructor. No test etc.
http://www.nbaa.org/admin/personnel/sic/

Get as many hours as you can. Will pay off when you get a type rating. It will be more valuable. Find the right situation and it won't cost you a dime. I got 50 hours in a V. Didn't spend a penny. Outfit needed a SIC. Now I am flying as PIC. It's gotten a lot easier.

Yea this seems smart. I need to look around Houston, see if anyone would like a free porter. Log some right seat time, maybe pick up an SIC rating. Then a PiC type rating.

Besides, flying out there on real trips would be so much better of an intro compared to hustling in a simulator for 3 days

Yea this seems smart. I need to look around Houston, see if anyone would like a free porter. Log some right seat time, maybe pick up an SIC rating. Then a PiC type rating.

Besides, flying out there on real trips would be so much better of an intro compared to hustling in a simulator for 3 days

yea I'm COMM/AMEL/IFR - just need to go for a 2nd class medical (i have a 2nd class but it's in 3rd class status today due to time).

I'll start beating the drum. Question is, should I go try to get a SIC rating first then look for ride-alongs...or try to get the SIC by this method.

Tyler, you are already a qualified and legal SIC. The SIC type rating isn't really a type rating at all. It's a sign off saying you did three bounces. No checkride. The SIC came about as an ICAO requirement for operators traveling internationally.

Done correctly, it's a little more than 3 bounces, but that is the terminology used for years.

Sec. 61.55 — Second-in-command qualifications.

(a) A person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command pilot flight crewmember only if that person holds:
(1) At least a private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and

(2) An instrument rating or privilege that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR; and

(3) The appropriate pilot type rating for the aircraft unless the flight will be conducted as domestic flight operations within United States airspace.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command unless that person has within the previous 12 calendar months:

(1) Become familiar with the following information for the specific type aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested—

(i) Operational procedures applicable to the powerplant, equipment, and systems.

(ii) Performance specifications and limitations.

(iii) Normal, abnormal, and emergency operating procedures.

(iv) Flight manual.

(v) Placards and markings.

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, performed and logged pilot time in the type of aircraft or in a flight simulator that represents the type of aircraft for which second-in-command privileges are requested, which includes—

(i) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;

(ii) Engine-out procedures and maneuvering with an engine out while executing the duties of pilot in command; and

(iii) Crew resource management training.

(c) If a person complies with the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section in the calendar month before or the calendar month after the month in which compliance with this section is required, then that person is considered to have accomplished the training and practice in the month it is due.

(d) A person may receive a second-in-command pilot type rating for an aircraft after satisfactorily completing the second-in-command familiarization training requirements under paragraph (b) of this section in that type of aircraft provided the training was completed within the 12 calendar months before the month of application for the SIC pilot type rating. The person must comply with the following application and pilot certification procedures:

(1) The person who provided the training must sign the applicant's logbook or training record after each lesson in accordance with §61.51(h)(2) of this part. In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant's training records or logbook and make the required endorsement. The qualified management official must hold the position of Chief Pilot, Director of Training, Director of Operations, or another comparable management position within the organization that provided the training and must be in a position to verify the applicant's training records and that the training was given.

(2) The trainer or qualified management official must make an endorsement in the applicant's logbook that states “[Applicant's Name and Pilot Certificate Number] has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the [Type of Aircraft], relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second in command.”

(3) If the applicant's flight experience and/or training records are in an electronic form, the applicant must present a paper copy of those records containing the signature of the trainer or qualified management official to an FAA Flight Standards District Office or Examiner.

(4) The applicant must complete and sign an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1, and present the application to an FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner.

(5) The person who provided the ground and flight training to the applicant must sign the “Instructor's Recommendation” section of the Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1. In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant's FAA Form 8710–1.

(6) The applicant must appear in person at a FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner with his or her logbook/training records and with the completed and signed FAA Form 8710–1.

(7) There is no practical test required for the issuance of the “SIC Privileges Only” pilot type rating.

(e) A person may receive a second-in-command pilot type rating for the type of aircraft after satisfactorily completing an approved second-in-command training program, proficiency check, or competency check under subpart K of part 91, part 121, part 125, or part 135, as appropriate, in that type of aircraft provided the training was completed within the 12 calendar months before the month of application for the SIC pilot type rating. The person must comply with the following application and pilot certification procedures:

(1) The person who provided the training must sign the applicant's logbook or training record after each lesson in accordance with §61.51(h)(2) of this part. In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant's training records or logbook and make the required endorsement. The qualified management official must hold the position of Chief Pilot, Director of Training, Director of Operations, or another comparable management position within the organization that provided the training and must be in a position to verify the applicant's training records and that the training was given.

(2) The trainer or qualified management official must make an endorsement in the applicant's logbook that states “[Applicant's Name and Pilot Certificate Number] has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the [Type of Aircraft], relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second in command.”

(3) If the applicant's flight experience and/or training records are in an electronic form, the applicant must provide a paper copy of those records containing the signature of the trainer or qualified management official to an FAA Flight Standards District Office, an Examiner, or an Aircrew Program Designee.

(4) The applicant must complete and sign an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1, and present the application to an FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner or to an authorized Aircrew Program Designee.

(5) The person who provided the ground and flight training to the applicant must sign the “Instructor's Recommendation” section of the Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710–1. In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant's FAA Form 8710–1.

(6) The applicant must appear in person at an FAA Flight Standards District Office or to an Examiner or to an authorized Aircrew Program Designee with his or her logbook/training records and with the completed and signed FAA Form 8710–1.

(7) There is no practical test required for the issuance of the “SIC Privileges Only” pilot type rating.

(f) The familiarization training requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to a person who is:

(1) Designated and qualified as pilot in command under subpart K of part 91, part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter in that specific type of aircraft;

(2) Designated as the second in command under subpart K of part 91, part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter in that specific type of aircraft;

(3) Designated as the second in command in that specific type of aircraft for the purpose of receiving flight training required by this section, and no passengers or cargo are carried on the aircraft; or

(4) Designated as a safety pilot for purposes required by §91.109(b) of this chapter.

(g) The holder of a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (b)(2) of this section, provided the pilot:

(1) Is conducting a ferry flight, aircraft flight test, or evaluation flight of an aircraft's equipment; and

(2) Is not carrying any person or property on board the aircraft, other than necessary for conduct of the flight.

(h) For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (b) of this section, a person may serve as second in command in that specific type aircraft, provided:

(1) The flight is conducted under day VFR or day IFR; and

(2) No person or property is carried on board the aircraft, other than necessary for conduct of the flight.

(i) The training under paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section and the training, proficiency check, and competency check under paragraph (e) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator that is used in accordance with an approved training course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter or under subpart K of part 91, part 121 or part 135 of this chapter.

This is a little bit like finding a job. Networking is usually the best way. Find a guy "who knows a guy". A good source would be type rated contract pilots. Another source would be aircraft managers who do dry leases. Also if you will be in the market for a machine, a sales guy could help. Beer can help make the network flow

My experience is that to an aircraft manager there is no such thing as too many pilots.

Many type rated guys are ATPs and can sign you off as SIC. That will require some ground school (systems familiarity) and three take offs and landings.

A little time and an SIC would certainly help. A bit of a chicken and the egg thing.

Once you get a type rating the flood gates open. Guys like flying with you and you will get all kinds of opportunities because of the mismatch between supply and demand. Like I said, 50 hours in a V in 30 days. I could have 300 hours in 500 series in a year and not even break a sweat. Just got to be flexible and have the availability.

This leads to other things too. i am getting SIC'd in a 650 series. Swept wing, 460 knots, APU etc. $1500/hr dry. Expressed an interest with two guys that I had flown with who fly 650's. Both said no sweat, get you signed off and happy to fly with you. Turns out they are always looking for guys to fly trips with them. Etc etc.

Aside from international ops, I have never heard of anyone requiring an SIC type.
They look cool on your cert, so as soon as you meet 61.55, have it signed off and take an 8710 to your FSDO. It's free, why not?

What will get you the re-invitations is being a GREAT FO.

If you make it so that the PIC will learn to trust you, and not have to work twice as hard by thinking for both of you, word will get out and you will have plenty of flight requests.

The "Guys like flying with you" is the key. Anyone can fly or be taught to fly for the right seat. The personal element is huge in corporate.