I'm going to need a bird with longer legs here soon. I want something with a 2000NM range; then I'll always get the 1200NM I need from South Jersey to Dallas. The MU2 doesn't have the legs, the Commanders are overpriced and have an anemic Va (137KIAS scares me), I don't like King Air 300/350 are prohibitively expensive on my budget, I think Cesna's attitude toward their legacy airplanes is despicable so forget the Conquest, and I won't fly around on one motor for serious transport, turbine or not. I'll keep my A* too, because A) it's paid for, B) I love it, and C) it's a lot cheaper to fly on the short hops and less tarfu WX.

I wanted a MerlinIIIA; 285-295 true, good to 28k (it's really not worth RVSM on these), climbs well, good ice machine, stout, 2000NM range, needs 3500' runway. The cabin is nice, parts are tricky. Cost- 450k or so, maybe $1000/hour to run.

A friend of mine who has been doing MX on turboprops for many years is trying to point me at a Cheyenne 400LS.

Cheyenne 400LS; 385 true unless you need long range and go high, then it's FL410(!) and 295 true for 2000NM, climbs like a raped ape (>4000'/minute, good for better than 1000'/minute on one), I dare ice (or a Mustang) to even try to catch it, needs about 2000' runway, also stout, cabin not as good as the Merlin (I don't much care), 1.1 to buy, maybe $1250-$1500 to run. Also, as this bird is faster/climbs better/has more range/needs less runway/costs less to operate than most light jets, I think it's a keeper.

Anybody in here fly either or (better yet) both and have an opinion? I'm leaning towards the Cheyenne, but I hate stroking a check for over a million bucks when I'm simultaneously opening another business; my fearlessness went away when I stopped being 20-something and I found out things could go wrong, and I'm just not wealthy enough to keep the Cheyenne if the new venture doesn't work out. I can't say I'd be worry free if I bought the Cheyenne, and I'm not wild about the concept, but it is about the baddest bird on the block...

Ugh. Thoughts?

400LS will not do 385 KTAS.

It's a fast bird.......more like 340-ish KTAS top speed. I believe someone on this board operates one.

I meet a guy at a conferance on tuesday that flys a 400ls he really likes it I would think he would be willing to talk to you. He gave me his email we are going to try to get together and go flying in the next few weeks. If you would like his email send me a pm.

For really long legs, there are only two real contenders: Merlin III and Aero Commander 695.

I would look at the Commanders again. You can get aux fuel tanks installed in the 690B's. But the real star is the last 695's or the Renaissance 695 they built. It's a nice piece of equipment - 300kts and +2100nm range with the Dash 10 engines. Sure, they're not the cheapest of the bunch, but they are just about the most versatile turboprop you can get. And they have a huge, roomy cabin. In this category, they're the only aircraft you can take into a 3000ft rwy. And certainly the only TP you can take into grass or gravel field. Being able to get closer to your destination, able to use smaller airfields, being able to save on handling and FBO's is worth a little extra in my book. You can get into one for $600K and a real nice one for $800K.

I used to fly a piston Commander. Solid planes that are well built and well loved. That's why they've kept their values, because they offer something no other twin can do. They're the all-can-do-plane. Cabin class and bush plane all rolled into one. And when you step up to the turbines the one achilles heel of the Commanders - their relative slow top speed - goes away.

Can't you jet put aux tanks on the 700? That should get you to 1200nm if you don't mind pulling back a little.

Personally I would be real nervous about support and parts availability with old Piper airframes, especially one as niche as the 400LS. Undeniably an awesome design. But in the real world you gotta live with them, and that means having someone you can call when something breaks.

I don't know anything firsthand. But given Piper's myriad of issues over time, and the reputation of Cheyenne support in general, I have a hard time believing that parts and support would not be somewhat challenging. There were only 41 built, and only 23 remaining on the US registry.

BTW, here's a 1240NM flight I did this summer in my Solitaire, westbound against (light - ~10-20kts) headwinds. I wouldn't do it where destination weather was bad because I'd want better reserves, but it worked when I was confident the destination was VFR.

I know what you said about Cessna's support of their older airframes, and I share some of those qualms, but the 441 Conquest is an exceptionally capable airframe with long legs. I might own one if I could afford it.

I know it sounds crazy... But look at lear 35 numbers. Just look. No harm in looking. More per hour, but faster so u wont spend as many hours.

The 400LS was ahead of its time and not many made as stated above. Plagued with FCU and GCU problems. Had a guy here that had one then leased a Citation X, needless to say the Cheyenne wasn't much slower on the short legs like SLC to LAS.

Contact Sean Fowler. He's a BTer here and is the guy to talk to about the Merlin series.

The Merlin is a great plane. Lots a plane, but I always thought it was unrivaled in its class considering speed, range and pax comfort. I don't have any Cheyenne experience, but I have heard the same as mentioned about parts availability. A friend was flying an all black Cheyenne 400LS for about six months, I can put you in touch with him if you'd like.

King Air 350 would never do 2000 NM in the first place, so yes, skip that model !

And yes, they are expensive. Unless you have no issue with spending $7M for something with propellors on it.

BT member Erwin Klassen lives in Paraguay and operates a Merlin III. Has 650 gallon tanks and he bought it specifically for long legs.

As mentioned above, support is an issue with the 400. In particular, the props are something like $100K each to overhaul. Many have gone to MT's. If you are looking at a 400, I would identify who would maintain it and go from there.

There is a specialist Merlin shop near Dallas that I think has access to parts cheaper than the "factory" which has a cost structure geared toward airline Metroliner support.

Good Morning Craig,

We've discussed Merlins a couple times so you know my thoughts on them.

The 400LS is one of those planes that is really just in a class by itself. They're a hoot to fly for sure, but having not owned one, I can't say what support is like on them.

Those "big block" -14 Garretts are not cheap to overhaul, but of course MSP will cover them. I'm not sure if Propulsion International has added them to their GMP but if they have, that would be my first choice.

As Scott already mentioned, real world speeds in the 400LS are in the 340 - 350 range, which of course is still a noticeable jump over the Merlin.

The Merlin wins for cabin comfort. Best cockpit layout probably goes to the 400LS, but that can vary quite a bit from one plane to the next. The 400LS is quieter than the straight III and IIIA but comparable to the IIIB, IIIC, and 300. The Merlin carries an extra 80 gallons of fuel as well.

As always, it comes back to your individual mission profile. If you truly want the range, then stick with a Merlin III or IIIA (IIIB, IIIC, & 300 will be slightly slower and have slightly less range due to the extra reduction gear and 4 bladed props). If you're willing to sacrifice a bit of range in favor of having more speed and overall performance go with the 400LS.

Of course none of this takes into account the financial side of the equation, in which case I think that in terms of bang for your buck it's hard to beat the Merlin III series.

John IV

John, I have enjoyed reading all your posts about the Merlin. I can't remember if I read this or not but where do parts for the Merlin come from? In other words - does somebody still produce them?

Craig,
My take is a little different. I've expanded my business a lot over the last 30 years and have enjoyed moving up the airplane food chain as the business and profit expanded. I wouldn't stretch it financially until your new business has a solid foundation. Life's too short for worry. Fly what you have, get up a little earlier, make a fuel stop and insure your new venture goes according to plan. Once you are there, you'll be holding all the cards and moving up to a more expensive, faster, higher, longer legged airplane will be a joy.
Em

Merlin factory support has gone through several owners. M7 was the most recent one til it was bought by some Israeli defense conglomerate. There are still a decent number of 226/227 airframes in revenue service and the parts support is geared toward keeping them running with prices to match.

There are a lot of new old stock parts floating about and the specialty shops can get to them at more reasonable prices.