Gentleman,

I need some help! I find myself having a hard time making what should be an easy decision. The Tiger that I bought for my wife and daughter has a KLN 88 (loran). Since the Feds spent billions upgrading the loran system and then shut it down, this unit is now a paperweight.

I want to upgrade with a GPS, since the plane is currently being used for training, I think a moving map feature would be a big help in the cockpit. Here are the options as I see it but would appreciate your advice.

1. Install a KLN 90B. I can get a used one for less than 1 AMU.
2. install a KLN 94. My avionics guy told me he removed one from his C310 because it was too complicated to operate and installed a 430. It does have a moving map.
3. Install a 430W. This is likely overkill and by far the most expensive, but in the long run likely to get part of the value back if I sell the aircraft. I could sell one of the 155's to recoup some cost.
4. install a portable GPS such as a 396, 496 or aera, perhaps in an Air gizmo panel mount.
5. Just buy a portable GPS and put on glare shield or yoke mount.

More info to add to the mix. The new line of garmins and king gps units will likely hit the streets this spring and prices of used 430's and 430W will drop. This bird is equipped with an STEC 50 AP and I would like to hook up the AP to the GPS.

So what would you do? I'm attaching pics of the panel.

No way, no how I'd bother putting in a KLN90; obsolete now, more so later.

If I could get the 94 for cheap, that wold be an option; I do not understand the complaint about the 94 being complicated, as I recall them being reasonably straightforward to use. The 89B, on the other hand, was a beast.

But the real question is, what do you want to do? If you want an approach-certified GPS, the labor involved will be a real expense no matter what, so if that's the goal, get something reasonably close to modern - a 430 or 430W. If you just want the moving map, just get a nice portable and be done with it.

For whatever it's worth, planes for sale need to have a 430 or better, just to avoid having that "old panel" stigma.

Rick -

See as this is a training aircraft for your family, what is your ultimate goal in terms of that training? Are your wife and daughter going to be trained to the level of confident instrument pilot or VFR pilot? Will all of their foreseeable training be in the Tiger or will they transition over to the Bo?

If they were going to be trained to be VFR pilots in the Tiger, then I think a portable on the yoke or in an AirGizmo would be fine. It is also the least in terms of net cost.

If they are going to be trained to IA standards in the Tiger (and not in the Bonanza), then I think I'd look at an IFR-certified panel-mounted unit. If you want them to be able to fly WAAS based approaches (coupled and non-coupled), then your only choice (on your list) is the 430W. Moreover, if you have Garmins in the Bonanza, there may be some value to you to have them comfortable with the GPS even before they transition to the Bonanza.

Off the cuff, it seems like this decision is more about the training goals than the plane.

The Garmin GNS155XL is a current production model and should fit within the small space of the Loran in that panel. I have one. I find it to be a capable unit that interfaces well with an autopilot for NAV tracking of a GPS course. It will also interface with the autopilot for flying GPS approaches, but without VNAV. It does not have the capability to fly ILS/LOC approaches as does some of the other units with built-in NAV receivers, but you have that already with the KX155 units.

These GPS's are available at very reasonable prices in the used market.

Rick,

I too don't understand the comment about the 94 being difficult to use. The Twinkie I fly regularly has one as its #2 GPS and it works both well and easily. I'm looking for one reasonably priced to replace the 89B in a Warrior.

I had a 155XL before I upgraded my Skylane's radios and it worked very nicely (made me wonder why I was changing everything). It does not have color, but is it really necessary?

I'd go with either of those options.

By the way, nice plane.

Rick, if the KLN94 is considered hard to use, I'm going to love the CNX80.

I thought it was really easy to use after the first couple of times compared to the GX50 in my Sundowner.

Sent you a PM.

The kln 94 is nice but you have to consider the interconnections to the autopilot. Throwing a 430 in there makes this the easiest as the Nav and GPS are in the same box and you dont need an external relay and all the wiring associated with that.

i have a kln 94. it is very easy to learn and use

Charles,

How much panel work would have to be done to fit the 430 in. I'm assuming the #1 OBS would have to be relocated along with the Argus display?

Put an Aera on the yoke and forget about it. They don't need an IFR gps anyway and need to learn the basics with minimal distractions. Once they put in their required time in the kitty cat have them train for instrument in your Bo. You will be throwing money away putting anything in the panel of the Serville.

Thats a spacing predicament there! I would ditch the ADF and you would then gain the space in the main stack by removing a kx155 and kr87.

Or maybe you could do audio panel and 430 in the left radio stack, ditch the argus, no that wont work, the nav indicator would move too far away.

You need an aspen.

No, an aspen wouldnt fit well either becuase you need to retain the attitude indicator and the usual approach to that is to ditch the TC and put the attitude indiicator there, but you have an stec autopilot. Unless you ditch the adf and move the TC over to the right.

If the 90b is already running though a relay to display on the nav head above it, then you should replace the 90b with a 94. That would probably be the most straight forward swap.

As you can see, I'm thinking out loud in rapid succession.

The KLN-90B is a great GPS unit, and will be a DIRECT replacement for what you have now, pull one out, put the other in. GPS antenna of course! For it to be IFR you will need to install a GPS switching panel.

- Mark

My first choice of the options you posted would be a 430W. IFR WAAS is getting close to "must have" status for training and XC flying. Chances are the cost delta over the other choices would be almost completely reflected in the increased resale value. You are correct that you could recoup something for the removed KX155. 14v versions with GS have the highest value. You could also sell the ADF for something while making room for the GPS although it would be worth having the GPS on the left side if there's room. With an IFR WAAS GPS there's very little value in an ADF and that value is diminishing rapidly as NDB only approaches are replaced or supplemented with GPS approaches.

Second choice goes to the KLN94. The main downsides are that it will never support WAAS and cannot drive GPSS (a nice way to couple to the autopilot). The map is way better than the 90B and the user interface is far more logical.

The KLN90B would likely involve the lowest installation effort but it's a difficult user interface to learn and while it's got a few tricks the 94 lacks, the map sucks and there are things the 94 will do that it can't.