Any helicopter pilots in the group?

I am VERY interested in getting my add on in the near future. I have a couple of options nearby.

It seems like the ultimate SUV. A R22 landed at our place the other day for some aerial photography. It is amazing what they will do. Since most of my "mission" is flying around home, checking crops or just being airborne this does make some sense for me.

Is it crazy hard?

Dangers? I've heard it is no more dangerous than what we fly (given all equal factors - smart pilot with good judgement and training)

I already know how expensive it is so no shock there.

Best models for training? I'm looking at a R22 or a Hughes (much less expensive). What about Hillar or Bell?

Anyone know someone like Paul McCracken who know helicopters like Paul knows Beechcraft? That has been my biggest problem. Information is difficult to come by on choppers. The forums are weak and the advice is slim.

Thanks

Brett,

I am not a helicopter pilot but I fly in them everyday, and talk with our pilots so I will try answer a few of your questions.

Are helicopters hard to fly: Anyone can be tought to fly them but you have to get used to using hands and feet while ridding a unicycle.

After asking around the pilots at work they ALL sugested Huges/Scheitzer 269/c300 for training,
as there is no SFAR for them as there is on the Robbie. If you do go the Robbie route get the R44 train in it then fly it. Bell or Hiller are great helicopters Hillers can be had for under 100,000.00 there is a place in Texas that rebuilds them to like new look in Trade a plane.

As for a mech. well where do you live I know a few and could point you in the right direction.

One other option look around some of the older Bell 206b are going dirt cheep as far as heilcopters go. Just pay close attn to the componate times because things time out differantly ie; the TT straps 2000 hrs or 24 months(requiers that the head be dissassembled).

Good luck,

Jay

What is SFAR?

I live in Saint Joseph, MO (1 hour north of Kansas City). There are a few heli mechanics around.

I want an expert like Paul to pre buy one because this is a whole new ball game in terms of maintenance. When a robinson times out you basically throw it away. I'm looking for a two seater. Will probably just "play" for 5 or more years and maybe someday upgrade to a Bell 206. I want to be in that low $100k (preferably less) range. Insurance is a whopper. About $10k/year on a hull value of $85k.

Brett,

THe SFAR on the Robbie is here http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enDocument. I asked our Mech. at the base I am a flight Nurse on a helicopter and he said give a hard look at the 269 and C300, also the Hillers. As for a Mech. and prepurches inpsection Contact Uniflight in Grand Prairie TX, or shoot James Loftin an e-mail at; jloftin@uniflight.com, He is President and COO of the company and should be able to point you in the right direction as to someone who can help you with a pre buy. For Hiller helicopters Maynard Winch our Mech. said to try these guys;

http://www.fortwoltershelicopters.com/aircraft.htm

Jay

Hi Brett:


I'm a commercial rated helo pilot, formerly owned an Enstrom F28C. Flown Bells, Hueys, and Hughes 500s.


Depending on what you can afford (and you're right, they *are* expensive) turbine is far better way to go, IMO. Careful on component times, cycles, etc. There are a few operators out there who run blades, parts, etc that have had the times "fudged" on them, and by it's very nature a helicopter is an order of magnitude more "sensitive" to proper maintenance. It is continuously trying to tear itself apart. Piston helos require much more throttle manipulation, and ifyou can fly a piston helo well, the transition to turbine is incredibly smooth. The turbines all have automatic throttle control. The only piston I've flown that does that well is the Robinson. I personally like the R44 much better than the R22. Both have relatively low rotor inertia (meaning that if the engine quits you have very little time to get the collective down and start the autorotation...if rotor speed drops too low, you are in deep doo-doo).


I enjoyed my Enstrom immensely, have though of another one but just cannot justify the expense/aggravation/maintenance.


As far as difficulty...you will feel like it's impossible, until one day you find the "hover button", and it starts working for you. It's a great feeling of satisfaction...


Best wishes....well worth doing the add-on just for the experience.



stan

I've often thought about buying a personal helicopter after flying commercially and in the Military, but my fear is that I would be disappointed with the difference between a multi -million dollar turbine powered to an affordable model like the R22/R44 or a 269. But, I did have a friend of mine that I helped train that bought his own 47 and built up his time and got all his ratings and sold it for a little more than he paid for it. Now he owns a H500 or OH-6 to be more accurate. I think he said the OH-6 is the only Military surplus helicopter you can buy with an airworthiness certificate, because they published all their data when it was provided to the Military. It is a labor of love though and I would not disuade you from trying to get your own. I think you'll hit some bumps along the way and most likely will need to do a lot of the work yourself to be more affordable but it might be worth it for the thrill of hovering! Just be cautions on your flying decisions, you have to keep that fun gene in check and refrain from the possible to the prudent when it comes to LZ's and low/slow flight. Just because you can doesn't mean you should land at your Mother's house! Good luck and feel free to ask any questions I might be able to answer.

Regards,
Mark Miller
AMC pilot and M20 owner.
but looking for an A36

Brett:

Once you get the helicopter bug it is tough to get it out of your system. I got the add on rating to my fixed wing license about 5 years ago. As was said in a previous posting, you will think it is impossible and about ready to give up until you just get it. I figured it out after about 4-5 hours and then it was cake.

I owned an R-44 and then a Bell 206. I was very concerned about the 3 second timeframe that you had to get the collective down in a R-22, hence my concern about owning or training in one. The 206 was a joy to fly, but I really enjoyed the R-44 the most. The 206 was very expensive to maintain and just got expensive. The R-44 was not this way, although it does have a fairly short lifespan (unless that has been changed). Component times are a major issue in any helicopter. Needless to say, my log books on my airplanes are much more complete than most because of helicopter experience.

I stopped flying helicopters a lot when my kids were born. I know they are safe, it just was too much risk at the time. I need to go out and do an hour or two, and now, after writing this I am going to go do that.

I learned to fly helicopters from Executive Helicopters down in Olathe at OJC. That isn't too far from you. I got my ticket in about 4 weeks, flying 3-4 mornings a day for an hour. If you want a good resource on Robinson helicopters, there is a good shop in Augusta, KS, which is right outside Wichita. I can't remember the name of the shop, but they know their stuff.

Good luck. For me, it was like flying in a dream. You are just out there.

My son loves all things aviation and I am probably going to have to bite the bullet and get into one again. Especially now that I live out here in Coastal CA, it would be awesome.

Feel free to PM if you have any other questions, costs, etc.

-jason

I have a friend who cut is teeth on a 60s model Hughes and now has a R44. He keeps telling me to buy the R44 but it is just too much money now (just bought the p35 for $70k and put another $70k in it). With insurance soooo high I was planning on paying cash or leveraging some property and not insuring it (saving $10k-20k/year)

I have spoke with the guys at OJC. They are still going in R22s. About $300/hour with instructor.

The ideal thing for me would be a lease/rent situation but OJC is an hours drive or 20min flight in my plane.

I definitely have the bug. Keep telling myself to just focus on the fixed wing and get my instrument but I really want a chopper. The 206 is a 5-10 year dream. The R44 maybe 3. If anyone could figure the economy out I would just buy a R44 now and lose a little money on the sale. Problem is no one is buying anything back even at a low price.

Take a look at this one. It really has my eye. The salesman is a bit of a jerk and won't give me much info.
http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... 159743.htm

Be aware that the R44 and R22 have a very predicable depreciation schedule. Not tax depreciation, but actual market value. It is based on calendar time and airframe hours. This makes determining a "fair" price pretty easy.

Remember that your fancy R44 will be a fancy leaf blower after 12 years even if you only have 100 hours on it.

In my experience, the Robinsons are not best suited to the owner operator due to the calendar life limit. Flight schools and other operators that fly lots of hours never run into this issue. Plus, for most of the items on the helicopter there is ONE place to go for parts, service, etc.