Hi all,

This is probably a stupid question - but if one wanted to put a pair of GTN 750s into a C501, what is the process?

The 501 doesn't appear to be on the GTN AML.

I see a lot of references to a JetTech STC, do you need to buy this 3rd party STC to install Garmin glass and radios into a C501?

It also appears that there are several combinations of glass cockpits in citations... from full G600s on pilot/copilot side, to only pilot side, to only GI275 replacements. I assume you have to follow the same JetTech STC for these as well?

Thanks

Send a message to Mike Tarver. He’s the man for legacy citation stuff.

Hi Christopher,

I know of 2 STC holders for Garmin upgrades for the 501. Jet Tech and Blackhawk (nee Columbia). My plane was the STC certification platform for Jet Tech so I am biased. Mike C had his 560 done using the Blackhawk STC and is happy with it so either are good options.

The first step is to check with local avionics shops and find out if they have done this work before and which STC they used. The shop will buy the STC and use it to do the work and certify the result. You may also try calling Jet Tech and Blackhawk and asking them if they can recommend anyone in DFW that has used their STCs before. Finally, I believe Jet Tech and Blackhawk do the upgrades themselves so you could check with them directly for lead times and prices.

You can mix and match Garmin units and spinning metal. You can keep all of the spinning metal and just add GTNs or you can do PFD/MFD on one side or all glass.

Make sure that you have them remove all of the old wire (dead wire stripping). It will seem expensive but it will save you a ton of weight (which translates into more useable payload) and will make any future work a lot easier (way more space behind the panel.

Finally, make sure you have the plane weighed. Many shops will try to calculate a new W&B based on what was removed/added but with major surgery like this the math will be wrong.

Thanks Mike and Chris.

Maybe my question is more philosophical... it sounds like you have 2 STC choices. But is there a reason why it's not certified directly by the manufacturer (i.e. Garmin?) Lawyering, liability, etc.?

I am nowhere close to getting a citation, but I'd like to know what my options are and rough ballpark budget so I can be prepared when the time comes. Appreciate the info, I'll do some more digging.

Thanks all
Chris

I think in the early days Garmin just did not want to be in that business. There is a lot of handholding installers, tuning parameters, etc. They just wanted to create the hardware and let others figure out the implementations. However that is changing as Garmin is getting involved in upgrades now. One of the guys on CJP just went full Garmin on his CJ2 including Garmin AP and EIS and it was on a Garmin STC. Garmin is also working on STCs to add their AP to other Citations.

IIRC Mike C paid $280k for his upgrade a couple years ago.

It's very expensive to certify an installation so the STC holder needs to be compensated. Otherwise their is no incentive to do the work!

Mike

Two things. Make sure you get LPV capability and that the autopilot with give you vertical guidance on a GPS approach. Many, if not most, planes do not have this capability and it is a pain to find this out after the fact. I fly over 10 different Citations, and its always a crap shoot as to whether they can fly a precision approach other than an ILS.
Irregardless, you will not have VNAV capabilities with the legacy autopilot. Genesys is very close to having their autopilot certified and that will be a game changer. Garmin is lagging behind for some reason on that front.

Thanks for the tips... particularly about LPV and VNAV.

I totally understand the STC holder recouping costs, but what I don't get is why is that even needed in the first place for just a radio swap? On an autopilot, G600, etc.. ok.

Do you need a JetTech/Blackhawk STC if you just replace the collins nav/comms with GTN 750s? Yes, you'll have an additional GPS signal to change. But did the GNS 530/430 require a third-party STC as well? I'm just scratching my head why Garmin didn't include legacy 500s in the AML for the GTN series.

Sorry if this seems pedantic, appreciate the insights.

It's hard to guess why Garmin does what it does...

As far as navigators go, Avidyne has the 501 on its STC's AML for the IFD series of gps/nav/com boxes.

Non-LPV GPS can be field approved for non-precision approach, which how the GNS 430/530 was installed.

But with LPV approaches STCs are required. So GNS430W/530W have STCs, and also GTN750/750Xi

Garmin did add the 525 and 525A to the GTN STC in April of this year, so they are getting there. Maybe the fact that there is an STC for the 500 series puts it on the back burner for them?

I recently had 2 x GTN750TXi's + GI275 + GWX75 installed on my 501. JetTech owns the STC we used and it was installed by a local avionics shop. I opted to keep the steam gauge six-pack since it's good enough and I don't mind flying with it. My recommendation is to go with a full glass install. The amount of time and effort and cost it took for my shop to get the new GPS to talk to the old systems was monumental and all but negated my expected cost savings. And it's probably worth having JetTech actually do the installation. YMMV.

That said, having dual 750s and a new radar is a massive upgrade and adds tremendous capability to the jet.

For the 501, We have put dual 750s 3 times in house; it’s very easy to screw up! There’s a lot of tribal knowledge that’s not in the manual to make it all work.

I realize that there are a ton of existing installs out there with varying degrees of implementation but I would think LPV and VNAV guidance are table steaks for any Garmin upgrade that is done today. My plane has had it since 2014.

Having the AP fly VNAV is overrated IMO. I get guidance on my PFD and crossing restrictions on my GTN and it is trivial to just drop my hand down and adjust the AP pitch wheel up or down to match the caret.

But I would install a Garmin AP if it was available. All of us on CJP are perplexed as to why they chose the order of models that they did. Tons of 560 drivers would switch so they could get rid of all of those expensive and heavy CRTs. Why they started w/ the CJ2 is anyone's guess.

Thanks everyone for relaying your experiences..gives me something to think about.

Maybe Garmin will add legacy types to the autopilot list, which I assume would bring with it the PFD and radios.

I thought the stec 5000 hit a roadblock during flight testing. Hopefully they get there. It’s been advertising “end of next year” for 3 or 4 years now.
My experience with Genesys management on a previous Stec 3100 install was not good. A/P was fine. Customer service not so much. I hope they succeed anyway and give Garmin some competition.