21 Jun 2025, 11:16 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: LearFan if built today Posted: 03 Nov 2024, 13:10 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 2213 Post Likes: +1591 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LearAvia_Lear_Fanhttps://www.flyingmag.com/pilot-reports ... -lear-fan/Watching how the turboprop singles and light jets have been developed makes me wonder what if the LearFan were revisited and updated for today. How would the real world performance, cabin room or problems compare? Especially with lighter modern electronics and avionics. Could it be developed as a single engine today to compete with the TBM / Fury/Merdian/ Denali types. PC-12 is bigger cabin so not quite a comparison but maybe. Or stick with the original twin PT6 plan? Old performance projections seem to blow right past any of the light jets and the smaller turboprop twins. Empty weight seems light, Is the airframe tube / cabin unusually small in real life?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 03 Nov 2024, 17:06 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 06/17/14 Posts: 5908 Post Likes: +2657 Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
|
|
It was missing the oval windows. That must have been the problem...
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 03 Nov 2024, 19:26 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 05/10/09 Posts: 3859 Post Likes: +2969 Company: On the wagon Location: Overland Park, KS (KLXT)
Aircraft: Planeless
|
|
An old friend of mine was an engineer on the Learfan and he has some great stories about blowing up fuselages for certification testing.
All turboprop engines have gearboxes, it's not really rocket science at that level to build one that's reliable. They're troublesome in piston engines because they have to build them cheaply. A PT6 gearbox costs as much as a whole IO-520, which makes it, in my opinion anyway, much easier to build something very solid.
From his telling of the tale, the fuselage testing required on the LearFan was a trial run for what the FAA did to Beech on the Starship. Lear died and the company eventually gave up before being able to certify a composite airframe. Beech nearly bankrupted themselves actually getting the job done.
At the end of the day, Cirrus, Boeing, and Airbus all owe a debt to Lear and Beech for the pioneering composite fuselage work. I doubt any of those would have had the dedication to get through the trials Lear and Beech had to go through.
_________________ Stop in flyover country and have some BBQ!
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 03 Nov 2024, 22:49 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 09/11/09 Posts: 5938 Post Likes: +5189 Company: Middle of the country company Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Rebooting.......
|
|
Username Protected wrote: An old friend of mine was an engineer on the Learfan and he has some great stories about blowing up fuselages for certification testing.
All turboprop engines have gearboxes, it's not really rocket science at that level to build one that's reliable. They're troublesome in piston engines because they have to build them cheaply. A PT6 gearbox costs as much as a whole IO-520, which makes it, in my opinion anyway, much easier to build something very solid.
From his telling of the tale, the fuselage testing required on the LearFan was a trial run for what the FAA did to Beech on the Starship. Lear died and the company eventually gave up before being able to certify a composite airframe. Beech nearly bankrupted themselves actually getting the job done.
At the end of the day, Cirrus, Boeing, and Airbus all owe a debt to Lear and Beech for the pioneering composite fuselage work. I doubt any of those would have had the dedication to get through the trials Lear and Beech had to go through. Just imagine the Starship, if it had been able to be built with the same knowledge and certification standards for composites, that we have today.........a plane well ahead of its time. Fat, dumb, and hap......ok, maybe not happy or dumb......but it did end up fat! LOL. The LearFan....wow....never knew that existed until today. A single would be cool as all get out.
_________________ Three things tell the truth: Little kids Drunks Yoga pants
Actually, four things..... Cycling kit..
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 03 Nov 2024, 22:50 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 10/06/17 Posts: 3209 Post Likes: +2699 Location: san diego
Aircraft: G35 / Acroduster
|
|
What a genius and visionary Bill Lear was. My first year (2000) as a crew member at the Reno Races included this memorable evening….Moya Lear (his widow) invited the racers and crew to her home on the Truckee River for dinner and drinks. Walking thru the home and office where he did so much of his work, was like visiting your uncles place who just happened to be one of the greatest aeronautical designers of all time. It was such a warm, welcoming and delightful evening and so very, very kind of her to invite us all.
_________________ A&P / IA G-35
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 04 Nov 2024, 01:02 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6652 Post Likes: +5959 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
|
|
If I'm not mistaken, the Windecker Eagle homebuilt was the first composite aircraft ever finished and Rutan and later all the military/airline producers owe a lot to that. If it wasn't for small experimental/EAA producers like Windecker, we would not be where we are today. Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing etc, they all owe a huge debt to that grassroots GA movement - and I've been a proud EAA member since day one because of that.
I don't have the patience to build a kit plane necessarily, but I support the organization. More innovation has come out of EAA members than anything else in aviation.
_________________ Without love, where would you be now?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 04 Nov 2024, 02:07 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 11/15/17 Posts: 1108 Post Likes: +576 Company: Cessna (retired)
|
|
I had an engineering supervisor at Cessna who had previously worked on the Learfan.
One problem with configurations like this is that there are failure modes that can take out both engines. ISTR the special conditions for the Learfan were rather extensive.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 04 Nov 2024, 02:08 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2845 Post Likes: +2792 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: Lancair Evolution
|
|
Username Protected wrote: If I'm not mistaken, the Windecker Eagle homebuilt was the first composite aircraft ever finished Not quite. While the Eagle was the first composite (fiberglass) airplane to be certified by the FAA, composite gliders had been flown in Germany as early as 1957.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 04 Nov 2024, 08:27 |
|
 |

|
|
Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 2213 Post Likes: +1591 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
|
|
Crew: Two (pilot and copilot) Capacity: Six passengers Length: 40 ft 7 in (12.37 m) Wingspan: 39 ft 4 in (11.99 m) Height: 12 ft 2 in (3.71 m) Wing area: 162.9 sq ft (15.13 m2) Aspect ratio: 9.5 Empty weight: 4,100 lb (1,860 kg) Max takeoff weight: 7,350 lb (3,334 kg) Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney (Canada) PT6B-35F turboprops, 650 shp (480 kW) each Performance
Maximum speed: 450 mph (720 km/h, 390 kn) at 25,000 feet (7,600 m) Cruise speed: 322 mph (518 km/h, 280 kn) at 40,000 feet (12,000 m) economy cruise Stall speed: 88 mph (142 km/h, 76 kn) with flaps down and power off Range: 1,783 mi (2,869 km, 1,549 nmi) Service ceiling: 41,000 ft (12,000 m) Rate of climb: 3,450 ft/min (17.5 m/s)
FL410 would be something with a turboprop. I just can't believe the empty weight figure. Gross weight seems more likely as an empty weight with 4100 useful load?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: LearFan if built today Posted: 04 Nov 2024, 11:28 |
|
 |

|
|
 |
Joined: 06/30/22 Posts: 2334 Post Likes: +1347 Location: 0W3
Aircraft: Mooney 252/Encore
|
|
I remember seeing the LearFan mockup at Reading Air Show. I spent some time talking with John Lear (son of Bill). I told him I though it would be hard sell to corporations with a single prop. Yes, it was two engines, but I can see the bean counter asking what happens is the prop falls off.  But today is a different world. It might just be the answer.
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2025
|
|
|
|