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 Post subject: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 06:42 
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Joined: 11/01/10
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Location: Anniston, AL (KANB)
Aircraft: 2013 Bonanza G36
School me on business jets, 6-10 seats, short(200-300nm ) and longer (>500nm) missions. Why is each choice popular or preferred?


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 08:41 
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Joined: 05/08/13
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Company: Citation Jet Exchange
Location: St. Louis
Aircraft: 58P C510 C525 Excel
Seeing as my company is called the Citation Jet Exchange I'm bias towards Citations, but I firmly believe they are some of the best jets, especially for the shorter trips.

Citation CJ2 - The cheapest of the 3 I recommend to buy and operate. It has 8-10 seats however the Achilles heal is the zero fuel weight is rather limiting. Can be flown single pilot. For 6 people it is perfect, 9 or 10 you need to have the side facing seat and belted lav which is rare. If you're taking a mix of kids it may be possible to stay within the zero fuel weight. Purchase prices $3.0-$3.5M

Citation CJ3 - Cabin stretched by 2 feet over the CJ2. Most models will have the full 9 seats, sometimes 10 seats AND it can carry the full load without busting zero fuel weight. The extra 2 feet in the cabin makes it feel "roomy". Prices start in the high $4Ms

Citation Excel - A stand up cabin (for most anyway) wider, larger seats, larger plane. Will require 2 pilots all of the time. Most have an APU, all have thrust reversers, external service lav, single point refueling, separate lavatory in the rear with a closing door. Purchase prices start at $4M on engine programs but operating costs will be at least 50% higher than the CJ series, closer to 66% higher. The best selling business jet ever produced.

All of these jets are widely supported by Cessna/Textron. The XLS/CJ3 series are still being produced, pilots and maintenance shops are plentiful. As far as jets go these are the most efficient you can buy for their respective size and capabilities. All can get into short runways.

Please let me know how else I can help.

www.citationjetx.com

-The Citation Jet Exchange

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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 09:45 
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
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Username Protected wrote:
Citation CJ2 - The cheapest of the 3 I recommend to buy and operate.

Minimum $3M price tag to get one, and that's an old one with thrust attenuators and not full FADEC. That's about $250K in cost of money per year, so purchase price is a major factor in the cost structure. The CJ2+ will run you well into the $4M range.

There is a lot of options well under that if you wish.

You could duplicate today what I have, a Citation V, for about $1.5 to $1.7M. 9 seats, 1800 nm range, excellent short field capability, can be operated single pilot, can be put on a low use inspection program that lowers costs significantly. The passenger experience for a CJ2/CJ3 or a Citation V are basically the same. My ZFW is super high, 3000 lbs I can put in the cabin, that you can't max it out, so well suited to the high head count short range mission. With max ZFW, I still have 3900 lbs fuel, enough for over 1000 nm easily.

A 550 would work well for your short mission mix and can be had well under $1M. The fact it is slower won't matter for the 200-300 nm trips, and it can easily do 1000 nm well enough.

Like I did, you can fully Garminize the panel so you can have a modern panel. You will also drop major amounts of weight yielding more payload.

The very first question is single pilot capable or not. The divides the jet world into two very different camps.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 11:18 
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Company: Citation Jet Exchange
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No CJ2s have fadec, all have thrust attenuators. You're thinking of a CJ2+

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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 11:44 
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Location: Hampton, VA
2-300 a turbo prop would be a better choice for fuel burn, and also getting into shorter fields especially in rain etc

Over that for personal use the old single pilot citations seem popular


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 17:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
No CJ2s have fadec, all have thrust attenuators. You're thinking of a CJ2+

Exactly as I indicated, older planes have TAs, and it takes a lot to get into the CJ2+ with FADEC.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 17:58 
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Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
For 1,050,000, I’ve got the perfect 550 for you. Eight real seats in the back super low time airframe and Engines


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2023, 18:11 
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Without a CapX budget and OpX budget, this is a really open-ended question, but I'll take a shot with an open-ended answer. :)

Some factors for consideration.

1. Range and Comfort for Passengers:
For missions beyond 500nm with 10 passengers, the choice of aircraft becomes limited if you want to ensure comfortable travel for all. Going over 1000nm with a full load while maintaining passenger comfort and being somewhat economical for the short trips narrows down your options significantly. I think Citations (CJs) are great for shorter pax. They are uncomfortable for taller pax in my opinion.

2. Annual Flight Hours:
The number of hours you fly annually will also play a crucial role in decision-making. It can influence whether you prioritize CapX or OpX.

Higher CapX and Lower OpX Examples (Price Range: 8m-14m):
Phenom 300: While it's a great aircraft, it might not offer maximum comfort for all 10 passengers on trips beyond 500nm.

CJ4: Similar to the Phenom 300, it might not provide ideal comfort for a full 10-seat configuration.

PC-24: This aircraft is acceptable for carrying 10 passengers beyond 500nm while providing reasonable comfort. The 24 has the largest cabin for a single pilot jet.

Lower CapX and Higher OpX Examples (All 2-Pilot, Price Range: Sub 4m):
Citation VII: A low CapX option with two pilots, but it may not have the range you need for longer missions.

Hawker 800: Offers a balance between cost and performance but might not be as fuel-efficient for short hops.

AstraJet: Another low CapX choice with two pilots, suitable for shorter missions.

Consider that the single-pilot jets can potentially lower your OpX and provide more flexibility in pilot availability, even if you choose to operate with a crew. Narrow your options by viewing some that are for sale, they will usually run a few mission performance profiles for you. Once your selection is narrowed, charter a few to see how it works out.


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2023, 19:49 
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Joined: 11/01/10
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Location: Anniston, AL (KANB)
Aircraft: 2013 Bonanza G36
Just curious about the role of others as opposed to Citations. I know nothing about this market .

HONDA
BOMBARDIER
DASSAULT
EMBRAER
GULFSTREAM
HAWKER
LEARJET


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2023, 20:58 
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
Learjet is gone. All the others are 2 crew aircraft except the HondaJet. If you want single pilot jets, you're looking at Embraer Phenoms, HondaJets; Cirrus and Citations. That's pretty much all there is.

BTW, if Learjet had re-certified a few of their planes as SP, they'd still be in business. But no buyer is gonna crawl down a 5ft high cabin aisle without a potty to ride in the back and also pay for 2 pilots up front.

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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2023, 22:43 
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Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
Username Protected wrote:
Just curious about the role of others as opposed to Citations. I know nothing about this market .

HONDA
BOMBARDIER
DASSAULT
EMBRAER
GULFSTREAM
HAWKER
LEARJET


I'm guessing this was a serious question?

The Immutable Law of Life: The size of your jet/house and how good looking your car and/or wife are is often related to the number of commas in your bank account. There are some exceptions to the rule. So get the biggest, fastest jet you can afford.

But with that said, I think the only things I would buy if won the lottery would be a Gulfstream, a big boat and a house in the Bahamas; I would keep my old 501 because it's perfect for most jet missions.

Unless you just won the Powerball, I would buy a Citation.


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2023, 23:41 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20393
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
If you want single pilot jets, you're looking at Embraer Phenoms, HondaJets; Cirrus and Citations. That's pretty much all there is.

For new, add to your list:
Pilatus PC-24

If you are open to used airplanes:
Beech Premier 1, 1A
Eclipse EA500
Morane-Saulnier Paris Jet

The following Citations are single pilot out of the box:
501SP
551SP
CJ, CJ1, M2
CJ2, CJ2+
CJ3, CJ3+
CJ4

The following Citations can be single pilot with an exemption:
500
550, Bravo
S550
560 V, Ultra, Encore, Encore+

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2023, 05:18 
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Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 928
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Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: C525,C25A,C25C,CL604
Username Protected wrote:
CJ, CJ1, M2


Don’t forget the CJ1+, it’s a nice jet to fly with the full PL21.

Andrew.


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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2023, 05:57 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
As Brent said, there’s a couple of questions that have to be answered prior to giving you any truly useful information.

I can ask those questions here as long as you’re comfortable with public answers or you can give me a call and we can discuss. Totally up to you.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Best business jets?
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2023, 06:52 
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Joined: 11/01/10
Posts: 345
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Location: Anniston, AL (KANB)
Aircraft: 2013 Bonanza G36
I’m not buying a jet! I just need a business jet 101 intro summary to satisfy my curiosity.
The single pilot vs 2 pilot info was helpful.


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