My buddy Mike likes to turn every thread into a Citation V thread, I suggested he start this thread, but he’s more of a follower than a leader… so here it goes.

(standby for criticism of how many threads I start)

There are two aircraft that have very similar passenger and range capabilities, the Citation V and the King Air 350, I actually prefer the V over the 350, I think it is more airplane for the money, assuming it fits your mission and you’re ok with the slightly higher operating cost, but to defer to Mike C., I’ll take the weaker position in this debate and defend the King Air.

LOL the Piaggio beats both in comfort, economy, quietness and looks (just sayin')

Carry on!

Nah, King Air 350 wins.

Current score:
1467 to 251

It was said before but Owner buys a Bonanza, then Baron, then Kingair. Flies in and out of the local airport for years.

There goes Bob in his Airplane. All smiles.

Then buys a Citation. There goes Bob in his PRIVATE JET! Must be nice. guess he is into something... Scowls. Grumbling. Employees want more pay,

Bob has to deal with this. It's a real issue that in small communities can be a deal breaker.

The Private Jet negative stigma is real. Oddly it follows Pilatus also.
every time a PC-12 lands here I get calls or people stop me on the street. "who had the private jet the other day?". I fly the Kingair in and out several times a week and nobody says a word.

Piaggio might be quiet inside but sadly not when it flies over. DB meter might say one thing but you know when one goes over.

LOL the Piaggio beats both in comfort, economy, quietness and looks (just sayin')

Carry on!

Yes, comfortably. Route KLNA-HEVVN-KMWL.

Total wt of pax estimated at 1000 lbs (since you separated the cargo and two are kids)
300 lbs cargo
Right now at FL360 (28 kts headwind), 3+23 on 2053 lbs fuel with 642 lb reserve.
642 lbs reserve is about 1.2 hr at cruise.

I could fly FL380, take a couple more minutes and burn a tad less if I want a hair more fuel or payload margin.

What model Citation? What was the trip fuel burn? Could your pax stand up in the aisle?

Yes, comfortably. Route KLNA-HEVVN-KMWL.

Total wt of pax estimated at 1000 lbs (since you separated the cargo and two are kids)
300 lbs cargo
Right now at FL360 (28 kts headwind), 3+23 on 2053 lbs fuel with 642 lb reserve.
642 lbs reserve is about 1.2 hr at cruise.

I could fly FL380, take a couple more minutes and burn a tad less if I want a hair more fuel or payload margin.
What model Citation? What was the trip fuel burn? Could your pax stand up in the aisle?

Biased score keeper.

You counted all the variations of the 350 and only one variation of the 560.

You should count all the variations of the 560, too. V, Ultra, Encore, Encore+. They differ in exactly the ways the 350s do, avionics and engines.

There are still more 350s, but it is a lot closer.

Of course, 44,000 172s were built, so if we judge by quantity built, that's the best airplane of all time.

Mike C.

Biased score keeper.

You counted all the variations of the 350 and only one variation of the 560.

You should count all the variations of the 560, too. V, Ultra, Encore, Encore+. They differ in exactly the ways the 350s do, avionics and engines.

There are still more 350s, but it is a lot closer.

Of course, 44,000 172s were built, so if we judge by quantity built, that's the best airplane of all time.

Mike C.

Biased score keeper.

You counted all the variations of the 350 and only one variation of the 560.

You should count all the variations of the 560, too. V, Ultra, Encore, Encore+. They differ in exactly the ways the 350s do, avionics and engines.

There are still more 350s, but it is a lot closer.

Of course, 44,000 172s were built, so if we judge by quantity built, that's the best airplane of all time.

Mike C.

Yes, MY PIAGGIO near full gross in 30C temps would rotate just under 3,000 feet and complete trip in about 3hr and 20 minutes (Dallas STAR taking 10 more mins) at FL360 burning about 2,000 pounds.

I fly into and out of LNA when going to Flight Safety sometimes and would NEVER depart that short a runway that heavy.
I would depart West Palm or Stuart.

With my customer base NOT having a jet is a plus.
390 knots FL300 yessirreeBOB
Having a 5'10" cabin and small wing that laughs at turbulence Challengers are complaining about...another plus X TU
6,000 foot cabin round 39,000 feet- one more plus
Last week burning 78 gph while cruising 360 True at FL400 (yes, I was light) and grinning-another plus.
reverse thrust-

fully acrobatic yep
bleed air anti ice makes me laugh every time I see ice on wing- 1 more
full stand up lav-plus

OH, wait for it.....nothing ever breaks.
I am so SO glad most were afraid of this airplane and I got it for 70% discount.

3480 ft runway, with an engine failure at rotation? That doesn't feel like it would be "comfortable".

My flight planner says 3900 lbs fuel, 2:57, cabin load up to 1800 lbs, at FL400. FL430 is 3700 lbs and 11 minutes slower. Reserve is over an hour.

If I slow down to LRC, fuel goes to 3400 lbs, FL430, 3:15 time. So you save ~1300 lbs fuel over my V though I am still a touch faster yet.


I and most of my passengers can't stand up in an Avanti. At 5'9", it isn't a true stand up cabin. You do have a much bigger cabin none the less.

The Avanti is nice airplane and has some great features. If fuel was $20/gallon, it would be a hot item. I just don't think I can fly one for less than my V given current economics. It would deserve some consideration if moving out of my V.

Mike C.

Yes, MY PIAGGIO near full gross in 30C temps would rotate just under 3,000 feet and complete trip in about 3hr and 20 minutes (Dallas STAR taking 10 more mins) at FL360 burning about 2,000 pounds.

I fly into and out of LNA when going to Flight Safety sometimes and would NEVER depart that short a runway that heavy.
I would depart West Palm or Stuart.

Does Signature charge an event fee when the POTUS in town? Seems like they do for every other thing going on across the country.

It hasn't been a material issue for me. Some have been impressed, some have been concerned, most don't realty care, so on the whole, basically a wash.

I'll say the employees really like traveling in the V.

"Hey Mike, I need to go visit <client>, when are you available to fly us there?"

I don't think the Salt Lake City day trip I did would be doable in the King Air. We had 80-100 knot headwinds on the way out, which would have been 70 knots in the mid 20s. I'm still doing 310-330 over the ground, the King Air would be 100 knots less give or take. The extra 2 hours in the King Air would have made it an overnight visit.

Mike C.