11 May 2024, 11:14 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 28 May 2019, 22:12 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8468 Post Likes: +8475 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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When I spoke to them about 6 weeks ago it didn't seem to be a priority.
_________________ Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120 Never enough!
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 00:50 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23626 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I’m my opinion any turbo jet that flies above flight level 350 should be flown with TWO pilots. Two pilot airplanes suffer depressurization accidents, too. Ask Payne Stewart about that. Quote: If you have to ask why look at the loss of pressurization accident that happed to the previous owner of Serria Industries. This Citation lost pressurization at FL430 due to hose blowing off the ACM. He regained his abilities at 13000 and recovered but the airframe suffered substantial damage. It was a great save but totaled the airplane and no injuries. Great Job, Mark H. (Not our Mark Hagen) Mark Huffstutler, Former CEO of Sierra Industries Before we pin a gold star on him, he was operating without wearing his oxygen mask (FAR violation), and he had set the oxygen switch to "crew" which prevented the cabin oxygen masks from deploying as well (against checklist procedure). Further, the pilot recalled it taking 20 seconds to lose cabin pressure during which he didn't put on his mask (against checklist procedure). So I got 3 pretty serious deficiencies in this pilot's behavior or performance. https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... l&IType=LAHe didn't need a second pilot, he needed a first one who does the right thing. Not clear a second pilot saves the day here, either. If they are both unconscious, how does that help? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 00:52 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23626 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: When I spoke to them about 6 weeks ago it didn't seem to be a priority. That sounds like a "no" to me. If a PC24, CJ4, and a P300 are all single pilot, the BeechJet could be, too. It isn't only through an accident of history, just being certified before commuter category got extended to jets (by Cessna). Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 08:09 |
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Joined: 01/07/13 Posts: 1195 Post Likes: +1165 Company: Tupelo Aero, Inc Location: Pontotoc , MS (22M)
Aircraft: 1959 Twin Beech 18
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Username Protected wrote: AP:
Would you fly it alone? Or under what conditions would you fly it alone? I hate the concept of one size fits all. Maybe you need 1000 in type to earn the right but like anything else when you are a pro it ain’t all that hard. Flying it single pilot with everything right with the world is not a problem. It’s when the wheels start running off the little Red Wagon that person in the right seat makes all the difference. This airframe has great safety record. The only fatals are CFIT accidents that can hardly be blamed on the airframe.
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 08:15 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5303 Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: When I spoke to them about 6 weeks ago it didn't seem to be a priority. That sounds like a "no" to me. If a PC24, CJ4, and a P300 are all single pilot, the BeechJet could be, too. It isn't only through an accident of history, just being certified before commuter category got extended to jets (by Cessna). Mike C.
I’ll take AP and his 4000 hrs on this one. The BJ, at least at the pro pilot forum, is a handful, even for two. I spoke to Clifford at the NBAA: it was at best going to be a SPE type SP. If they’re off it, it easily could be it wasn’t going to work and or the insurance issues, which are hitting hard. CJP already reports one agency not rewriting policies.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 08:19 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13622 Post Likes: +11007 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: AP:
Would you fly it alone? Or under what conditions would you fly it alone? I hate the concept of one size fits all. Maybe you need 1000 in type to earn the right but like anything else when you are a pro it ain’t all that hard. Flying it single pilot with everything right with the world is not a problem. It’s when the wheels start running off the little Red Wagon that person in the right seat makes all the difference. This airframe has great safety record. The only fatals are CFIT accidents that can hardly be blamed on the airframe.
Ya but you could say that about any airplane. When you encounter something that you aren’t expecting and thus are busy and confused it is nice have someone next to you helping out. Goes with out saying. Why condemn such a safe airframe to a two pilot requirement? Nothing inherently wrong with the design that requires 2. Will there be more crashes? Undoubtedly. Will there be more crashes than other SP airframes? If so, why? Speed? Doubt it. Premier and CJ3/4 are pretty quick.
It’s America baby. Live and let die.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 09:19 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23626 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: It’s when the wheels start running off the little Red Wagon that person in the right seat makes all the difference You have a lot of faith in the SIC which may be a marginally qualified person sitting there just to warm the seat. Very, very few of them are going to be Jeff Skiles quality. You can list numerous two pilot accidents where the SIC didn't make all the difference, or contributed to making it worse. Colgan Air 3407 comes to mind. Generally, everybody likes having a second pilot (other than the lost useful load), it is really about the terrible logistics of having another human to deal with that causes the problems. You go from having an airplane you can use at any time to having to charter a human. You have the same problems as charter, schedule, logistics, lodging, cost, etc. People own because they don't want to charter. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 09:27 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13622 Post Likes: +11007 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: It’s when the wheels start running off the little Red Wagon that person in the right seat makes all the difference You have a lot of faith in the SIC which may be a marginally qualified person sitting there just to warm the seat. Very, very few of them are going to be Jeff Skiles quality. You can list numerous two pilot accidents where the SIC didn't make all the difference, or contributed to making it worse. Colgan Air 3407 comes to mind. Generally, everybody likes having a second pilot (other than the lost useful load), it is really about the terrible logistics of having another human to deal with that causes the problems. You go from having an airplane you can use at any time to having to charter a human. You have the same problems as charter, schedule, logistics, lodging, cost, etc. People own because they don't want to charter. Mike C.
Well said. And people that are adamant about two pilots typically aren’t owners. They are pro pilots. What pro pilot prefers to fly SP? None that I know of if no other reason you have to do everything.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 09:29 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23626 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: High Vref and single mains. Is Vref all that high? It seems to be about 100-110 knots typically. It seems to be pretty much that same as, say, a CJ4 whose Vref can be as high as 113 KIAS. The CJ4 also has single mains. Why does having only one tire per strut require two pilots? So are you saying a CJ4 needs to be two pilot because it has similar Vref and one wheel mains? Quote: Clifford mentioned something about the instrument layout that wasn’t conducive to SP as well. That's fixable. The Citation SPEs have requirements on equipment, so the BeechJet SPE can do that also. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 09:31 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 13622 Post Likes: +11007 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: High Vref and single mains. Clifford mentioned something about the instrument layout that wasn’t conducive to SP as well. Panel layout is solvable. Single mains? Say more re the connection to SP. High Vref? You mean short field limitations? I fly 50 kt Vref in the 185. 100 in the Jet. That’s 2x. Once you get used to it...
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Nextant single pilot? Posted: 29 May 2019, 10:05 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5303 Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: High Vref and single mains. Clifford mentioned something about the instrument layout that wasn’t conducive to SP as well. Panel layout is solvable. Single mains? Say more re the connection to SP. High Vref? You mean short field limitations? I fly 50 kt Vref in the 185. 100 in the Jet. That’s 2x. Once you get used to it...
Wish I could say more Mark. Not that knowledgeable on the BJ. I just give a lot of weight to someone who has 4000hrs in type and another that has done a lot of STC work on the airframe. I do know the brakes on the CJ4 are way superior to even the CJ3. And sure they are far better than the BJ. The High ref, swept wing, puts it up there with the Lear. You think the Lear is SP capable? Reading the systems on the 35 I don’t want to get caught with my pants down alone in a 35 with a systems failure.(eg TR deployment).
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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