02 Dec 2025, 06:14 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 15:19 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3038 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: For my HSI inspection, where should I get this done?
I have used Dallas Airmotive in the past. You have "Know your PT6A Turboprop" - http://www.caijets.com/pdf/KnowYourPT6A.pdfYou should post your questions in the Beech Turbines section where all of this has been discussed for the KAs.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 15:32 |
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Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2990 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Our #1 life extending concern on PT6A engines is to keep good batteries in great condition to ensure cool starts. We actually have automatic switches installed that change the start voltage from 24v to 48v during the course of the start. The engines will actually start cooler than they will idle using that technique.
You shouldn't have to deal with sulfidation on a 60 series engine. Most of those issues were on the small block engines that weren't run very hard.
As for fuel nozzles, how many hours do you average per year? We run somewhere between 450-700 hours and have had good luck doing nozzles twice per year. Once at annual and once when we estimate that we are half way through the season.
Since you have a nearly new airplane, I'd just follow the recommendations with the possible exception of shortening your fuel nozzle cleaning schedule.
In our case, we are running 10,000+ hour engines and have found that we save a ton of money by doing hots about every two years. That usually puts us around 1000 since the previous hot and nearly everything we find can be repaired very cheaply. The biggest thing is usually cracks in the combustion liner which can be welded up for $1000 or so instead of requiring an overhauled or serviceable part be substituted. Since we provide the hangar and do much of the labor of removing cowlings, etc., our hot section labor is usually only around $1500 or so.
I think a borescope every year would be a good idea, but since our hot section labor is so reasonable, I don't see the advantage in not splitting the engine. That said, I wouldn't split one at a factory authorized shop, or a FAA certified repair station ahead of schedule since they probably have some rule that every hot must end up costing $15,000 or more.
Its also a huge help to your mechanic and your pocket book to keep a good trend monitoring book so you can spot trends easily. One thing some trend monitoring books don't have a blank for is max Ng achieved prior to fuel introduction. If you will wait for the starter to max out the Ng prior to spraying and sparking, you can tell the health of the batteries and starter. When that number starts to drop off, find out why and fix it.
_________________ Who is John Galt?
Last edited on 30 Mar 2017, 15:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 15:33 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3038 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: I'm currently flying behind the pt6a-67p. I'm at 1900hrs with a recommended HSI of 2000hrs and then a TBO of 3500hrs. What gave you an HSI of 2000 hours? This chart says the 67P HSI is 1,750 and TBO is 3,500. And HSI is not recommended, it is mandatory. https://www.pt6a.aero/maintenance/pt6a-tbo-hsi-service-intervals/
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 15:58 |
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Joined: 10/28/11 Posts: 1379 Post Likes: +602
Aircraft: V35A, B300
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Manual allows for 50 hours of overflight but even then that's only 1800.
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 16:36 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7098 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: I'm currently flying behind the pt6a-67p. I'm at 1900hrs with a recommended HSI of 2000hrs and then a TBO of 3500hrs. What gave you an HSI of 2000 hours? This chart says the 67P HSI is 1,750 and TBO is 3,500. And HSI is not recommended, it is mandatory. https://www.pt6a.aero/maintenance/pt6a-tbo-hsi-service-intervals/
My maintenance facility. I will check with them today. Roger on the mandatory. Craig, I'm coming to your place
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 17:15 |
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Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2990 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: What gave you an HSI of 2000 hours? This chart says the 67P HSI is 1,750 and TBO is 3,500. And HSI is not recommended, it is mandatory. https://www.pt6a.aero/maintenance/pt6a-tbo-hsi-service-intervals/My maintenance facility. I will check with them today. Roger on the mandatory. Craig, I'm coming to your place 
We should have the runway paved in another two weeks or so. My hangar door is only 14' so we might need to get all of your kids to climb up on the horizontal to weight it down enough to get you in. My prices reflect my experience with engines from -27 up to -42. I understand that the 60 series are pricier but I've never owned one so I can't give accurate numbers for them.
_________________ Who is John Galt?
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 19:11 |
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Joined: 07/17/10 Posts: 211 Post Likes: +40 Location: CA
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I've spoken to two different ag operators that I use frequently. They both echo Craig's experience with regard to HSI's. That is, they do them themselves every couple years. They tell me that a few thousand bucks in labor and worst case about 10 grand in parts is all they see. When we get to talking about the costs reported under part 91 ops and having the work performed at some mainstream turbine shop, their eyes almost fall out of their heads.
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 20:31 |
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Joined: 05/29/09 Posts: 4166 Post Likes: +2990 Company: Craft Air Services, LLC Location: Hertford, NC
Aircraft: D50A
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Username Protected wrote: I've spoken to two different ag operators that I use frequently. They both echo Craig's experience with regard to HSI's. That is, they do them themselves every couple years. They tell me that a few thousand bucks in labor and worst case about 10 grand in parts is all they see. When we get to talking about the costs reported under part 91 ops and having the work performed at some mainstream turbine shop, their eyes almost fall out of their heads. We are part 91 also. Legally, there is no difference in the maintenance required on an ag plane vs. any other part 91 turbine single.
_________________ Who is John Galt?
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 20:50 |
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Joined: 05/31/13 Posts: 1360 Post Likes: +725 Company: Docking Drawer Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
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I just started flying a PT6 powered airplane and in 100 hours I've learned a few things. First, I agree on cleaning fuel nozzles more frequently than 400 hours. Its not particularly expensive and the consequences of a bad nozzle are crazy money. Here's a photo of a CT vane that likely was damaged due to streaking from a bad nozzle.
If the defect in the vane is large enough the turbine wheel must be scrapped. That's like a $90K part so you want to avoid that. I also had an issue where my starter generator was cutting out maybe 2-3% early on Ng speed and it resulted in 40 deg hotter start than the other side. That is one indisputable advantage of a twin. When one engine starts to act up you can see it in comparison to the other. Anyway I learned that the SG is needed just as much after you introduce fuel as it is to get Ng up to speed for the start. If it cuts out even a couple % before its supposed to it results in a hotter start and my C425 guru said it was bad for the engine because that is right when the secondary injectors start adding fuel. The engine gets a boost of more fuel and it needs to easily accelerate, aided by the SG, up to idle RPM. If it bogs down that is apparently bad.
Besides fuel nozzles and compressor washes I think with a PT6 you need to jump on problems early before they get insanely expensive.
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 21:11 |
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Joined: 07/17/10 Posts: 211 Post Likes: +40 Location: CA
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Username Protected wrote: I've spoken to two different ag operators that I use frequently. They both echo Craig's experience with regard to HSI's. That is, they do them themselves every couple years. They tell me that a few thousand bucks in labor and worst case about 10 grand in parts is all they see. When we get to talking about the costs reported under part 91 ops and having the work performed at some mainstream turbine shop, their eyes almost fall out of their heads. We are part 91 also. Legally, there is no difference in the maintenance required on an ag plane vs. any other part 91 turbine single.
Thanks Craig. I should have written it better. I'm referring to the reports from GA operators (guys like me). $30k hots seem to be commonplace.
I've been trying to de-mystify this whole "what's the cost to run a turbine thing." So far, its all over the map. Grrrr
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 21:14 |
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Joined: 05/31/13 Posts: 1360 Post Likes: +725 Company: Docking Drawer Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
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That CT vane was from an airplane I was considering buying. I called Covington and showed them the photo and asked if it would last until the next HSI which was something like 500 hours. The Covington guy said he wouldn't fly it another 2 hours. So yeah, if you delay then the problem gets more expensive by a factor of 100 or so...
_________________ ATP, CFI-I, MEI http://www.dockingdrawer.com
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Post subject: Re: Best way to take care of a P&W turbine engine Posted: 30 Mar 2017, 21:51 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7098 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: What gave you an HSI of 2000 hours? This chart says the 67P HSI is 1,750 and TBO is 3,500. And HSI is not recommended, it is mandatory. https://www.pt6a.aero/maintenance/pt6a-tbo-hsi-service-intervals/Confirmed for the 4th time tonight. Part 91, 2000 hrs, part 135 is 1750 plus a 50 hr 'grace' period. Craig, given what Scott is saying, how do we do a HSI inspection like you do? Right now, given that an HSI for single one time private owner is of very little value to a 'HSI' shop to try and 'earn' your business.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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