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 Post subject: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016, 08:17 
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6653
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
Can be had for sub-$1M.
Has twin engine reliability.
Looks friggin amazing.
Cruises at 155kts.
Burns the same as my TP.
Costs about the same to maintain.
Can land anywhere.
You're always in VMC.
Is cooler.


:scratch: :D


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016, 11:48 
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Joined: 03/19/12
Posts: 4044
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Location: Belton, TX (KTPL)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza E33
Username Protected wrote:
Can be had for sub-$1M.
Has twin engine reliability.
Looks friggin amazing.
Cruises at 155kts.
Burns the same as my TP.
Costs about the same to maintain.
Can land anywhere.
You're always in VMC.
Is cooler.


:scratch:

Adam, the cost to maintain an S-76 will far exceed that of a twin turboprop.

An older twin turbine helo will nickel and dime you and then franklin you to death. Parts prices are not for the feint hearted.

I have seen specs of $7.50 a mile DOC for the S-76. If someone else money, a blast! But too rich for many.


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016, 12:13 
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Joined: 05/08/09
Posts: 7328
Post Likes: +4806
Location: Stuart, FL (KSUA)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
I have quite a bit of experience with the S-76 series.

Figure $500k/yr for an older one. Close to $1M for a professionally operated D model.

Good luck with the landing anywhere part... :D


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016, 12:55 
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Joined: 11/18/13
Posts: 396
Post Likes: +65
Location: F70
Aircraft: AEST601B S-211 B-777
Looks cool. Not my favorite helo to fly though. Cockpit is a mess. If you really want to get into a helicopter get a 500E model. They are fast, cool looking and a blast to fly and maintenance would be considerably less than the S-76. Another super sexy helo is the Agusta A119 Koala. It is basically a single engined, 1000 SHP PT-6, version of the 109 with fixed gear. It is an absolute BEAST.


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 08:50 
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Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6653
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
Why are they so expensive to operate? Is it the Main Rotor Gearbox?

In any case, many years ago on another forum (when I was more into helicopters than I am now), I asked the chief test pilot of the S-76 (Nick Lappos) who the designer was of the S-76. He said it was designed by Aristide 'Al' Albert, who was an in-house Sikorsky engineer and designer. In my humble opinion, he made a completely timeless and gorgeous design that still looks modern 40 years after its introduction. I can think of only one other aircraft that has had that timeless and ageless design: Learjet.

Love the MD500E. One of may favorites.

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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 10:12 
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Joined: 04/04/14
Posts: 3441
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Location: Boonton Twp, NJ
Aircraft: B757/767
Dynamic components on any helicopter will eat your lunch.

Larger twin turbine isn't going to be cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 12:26 
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Joined: 09/10/13
Posts: 2465
Post Likes: +1949
Location: Richmond, KY
Aircraft: B95A Z526F SU26
Their airframes don't have too many issues. It is a whole different class of aircraft though... when we tell you (the customer) how to repair a mechanical issue, we expect you to be able to perform (or transport to a shop capable of) repairs using all the tools of the trade for the advanced NDT, coldwork tooling, composite repair stuff.

The 76 airframe is a blend of composite panels and sheet metal... dissimilar materials that need proper insulation from each other and laminates that need bonded properly to repair.

The dynamic system is unique in its design and is probably going to be the biggest expense to maintain. I'm an airframe guy, so I don't know much about it, other than it is very complex, expensive, and extremely well designed.

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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 12:41 
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Joined: 11/18/13
Posts: 396
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Location: F70
Aircraft: AEST601B S-211 B-777
We used to have a S-76 A that used to fly into Jetcopters in VNY back in the 80's. It had a dessert tan brown camouflage paint scheme done in metallics. Still to this day the best looking paint design ive seen on anything ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 23:16 
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Joined: 07/13/11
Posts: 2755
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Company: Aeronautical People Shuffler
Location: Picayune, MS (KHSA)
Aircraft: KA350/E55/DA-62
My brother works in a part 91 corporate operation and they have a S76B, he's the full time mechanic if that tells you anything...

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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2017, 02:24 
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Joined: 12/04/09
Posts: 356
Post Likes: +149
Aircraft: Dakota
Username Protected wrote:
We used to have a S-76 A that used to fly into Jetcopters in VNY back in the 80's. It had a dessert tan brown camouflage paint scheme done in metallics. Still to this day the best looking paint design ive seen on anything ever.

Please post of photo of that ship if you have one. I'd love to see it. :bow:


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2017, 06:02 
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Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 1102
Post Likes: +291
Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
Username Protected wrote:
Can be had for sub-$1M.
Has twin engine reliability.
Looks friggin amazing.
Cruises at 155kts.
Burns the same as my TP.
Costs about the same to maintain.
Can land anywhere.
You're always in VMC.
Is cooler.


always find it good info, if I do not know the ops costs of certain flying machines to check the charter rates on the market…

for all I know, in Europe, few S-76s available for charter and those mainly in the UK, but hourly rates for S-76s here are sold for approx 8K USD an hour…and that only if you take 50 hours a year…

so am afraid, Adam, guess you couldnt "slumm it" in the helicopter world with an S-76, as fine a flying machine as it seems to be….


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2017, 12:54 
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Joined: 11/18/13
Posts: 396
Post Likes: +65
Location: F70
Aircraft: AEST601B S-211 B-777
Username Protected wrote:
We used to have a S-76 A that used to fly into Jetcopters in VNY back in the 80's. It had a dessert tan brown camouflage paint scheme done in metallics. Still to this day the best looking paint design ive seen on anything ever.

Please post of photo of that ship if you have one. I'd love to see it. :bow:


Sorry no photo. I dont know the N Number. Could probably find it in an S-76 search on airliners.net Always wanted to fly one after seeing it. It was about 14 yeras later before I did. The gentleman I flew for who had the 500E wanted a larger helicopter. Back in 2001 we demoed a good assortment of all the contenders at the time: Bell 430, Agusta 109E and 119 Koalla, EC-155, new version of the Dauphin we flew from the factory in Marseille to Cannes and back...awesome flight! MD 902 Explorer, another favorite, and the S-76. United technologies brought out the latest version of the S-76 at the time, a PT-6 C+ I believe. We were going to take our boss from SBA to LAX. I had never flown into the heli complex at LAX before and neither had our other pilot or the UT demo crew, they were from CT. Somehow I was nominated. Some of the items with the 76 that stood out to me were 1. It was the only helicopter that I had flown where the rotor plane was so low in front someone could easily walk into it. That was scary. The panel was a mess compared to the other helicopters. I imagined a helicopter that was in its 4th generation or so and had been built for so long would have a well thought out and clean panel. It was a dream to fly though. It was super stable, SAS?, and very powerful; it would easily cruise along at its max speed of 155 KIAS. That was a very memorable trip mobbing along the coast from SBA into LAX.

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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2017, 09:14 
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Joined: 08/06/10
Posts: 16
Post Likes: +1
Aircraft: ms880b
Username Protected wrote:
Why are they so expensive to operate? Is it the Main Rotor Gearbox?


The gearbox may be expensive but think about the rotor head. Each blade changes pitch independently as it rotates, the stick controls this. They also change pitch collectively, the lever controls this.
The each blade flaps up and down and backwards and forward as the rotate.
So the rotor head ends up being complex and has to stand up to a lot of stress and vibration. If anything goes wrong with it you have problems.
So I would reckon seriously expensive to maintain.
I'm not saying that the MRG is not an important item, after all the aircraft hangs from it, but is at the end of the day a much simpler device in principal.


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2017, 13:48 
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Joined: 03/08/14
Posts: 101
Post Likes: +118
Company: Innovation Two
Aircraft: Piper PA 60
I have a friend who had an S-76 AND a Bell 222. He sold the S76 because it was expensive to maintain.

I also know someone who has an S76 - I have seen his annual go to over 250K some years, Also parts can be a problem. The 222 guy started his annual one recent January and it was October by the time it was fixed.

Parts delay - for many the factory needs to tool up.

It IS a sexy machine though


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 Post subject: Re: Why am I flying an aircraft again? S-76 dreams....
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2017, 20:59 
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Joined: 02/10/12
Posts: 6712
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Company: Minister of Pith
Location: Florida
Aircraft: Piper PA28/140
I always thought the Bell Jet Rangers were cool. What's it cost to run and maintain an older example?

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