I'm out at ProFlight for recurrent training. I got them to let me spend an hour in the CJ3 sim. I was curious both about what that level of sim is like & what the plane flies like. Eye opening experience. What a piece of hardware (both the sim...and the plane). I have a number of thoughts from the experience that have changed some of my thinking about the move to a jet:

1. "A Citation is just a Skyhawk with jets" / "Easier to fly than your prop" / "No problem" .... I think these are all gross exaggerations. First, the thing takes off down the runway like a rocket. Next, you're climbing at 7,000 ft/min. All of the systems are pretty complicated. There's no comparison to the Conquest.

2. Avionics. I thought I understood what a big deal this is. I didn't. ProLine 21 is an entirely different world. Now I know what they mean by "head down time". I have always been a GA / Garmin guy, so this is an entirely different world. I think you have to seriously consider whether you want your first step to a jet to include this challenge as well. As soon as I got out of the sim and started thinking about it, I started thinking "Maybe I want an older jet with steam gauges / Garmin stuff?" Or, maybe I want a jet with new Garmin stuff. I'm not sure if making the ProLine transition sounds like that much fun. I love a challenge, but this seems like a lot to add to the first jet transition. It also seems like a lot of required button pushing for a single pilot setup. Given I'm only interested in SP, this is a big consideration for me.

Now I understand why a type rating takes as long as it does. It was kind of fun to see how it feels to be that far behind the airplane and how much I have to learn - especially safely in a sim.

I recently transitioned to a PL21 cockpit. Unfortunately I didn't get a full initial, or avionics only deal, and had to do it during a regular recurrent training event.
Having never flown that type of glass cockpit/FMS before - you are absolutely correct that it is a big transition.

As far as certain jets being simple - we;; there are certain aspects that make jets easier. One is often engine management. FADEC solves a lot of problems (At least when it is working) for instance. The amount of SA available from most of the glass cockpit avionics makes ADM a piece of cake compared with older equipment. Thinking at 8 miles a minutes vice 2-4 miles a minute takes some getting use to and is one of the things that I've seen transitions pilot struggle with; but that ability often matures with experience.

If you have SJS - don't let that sim or the gucci avioincs deter you. Attend a good training program, be a serious student both in class and the sim, know and understand what you are taking on, and put forth the effort tht you obviously put into your life inside and outside of aviation and you will be a SP jet jock in no time

Just saw this thread further down the list.
Hey - if one BT'er can do it - so can you!
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=108171&view=unread#unread

Great pirep. Your impression of the Proline is the same as mine. Phenom it is.

Clay, I moved from a Cessna 425 to a CJ2+. Get a few flights under your belt and it will not feel so overwhelming. A turbojet does have a lot more performance to manage then a turboprop. And the plane is a lot easier to fly then the sim.



So pull the power back. If you are real light you can see a 4000 - 6000 fpm climb. More normal climb rate can be 3000 - 4000 fpm from SL when cold and light. Once you learn a bit about using the throttles you can fly a CJ3 at Conquest speeds and rates until you get used to all the performance.

One tip I give transitioning pilots is slow the plane down if it is getting ahead of you. A CJ3 will fly just fine at 160 - 180 kts if you need it to.

Your Conquest flies within an envelope of 120kts - 250kts. In the CJ3 you need to manage within an envelope of 98kts - 410kts.



Actually you will find that much of your 425 systems knowledge will transfer to the Citation. Cessna used much of the same systems design across their planes. Landing gear system in the CJ3 and the emergency blow down procedure is almost exactly the same as your 425. Hydraulic systems is largely the same. Electrical systems is very similar. Biggest change is in the FADEC controlled engines and the Proline 21 avionics.



Integrated Proline 21/FMS3000 is lower workload for a SP then a steam gauge/Garmin cockpit. You just have to fly right seat for a few hours and learn how to set it up. You can't judge it when stepping cold into the cockpit.



You know how to fly a plane. There are a few new things to learn in the transition:

- Managing turbojet engines
- Aerodynamics of turbojets
- New avionics systems
- Flying to ATP standards

Getting typed in a CJ3 will be no more difficult then any other Citation.

Clay, I think you are pretty right on with your thinking.

Problems with Proline are usually due to a lack of having it explained to you before being thrown into the simulators.

For the engineer and science types, think of Garmin and Universal as TI-83/5 series calculator and the PL as a HP48.

Unless you understand its underlying logic, it is like reading Greek when you only know Latin.

Once you understand it, I like it better than any other FMS out there.

What a great pirep and I concur with you totally. I am guilty of having said at one point of my ignorant past the Skyhawk with turbines baloney. I just took my type rating check ride today in the CJ and it is a lot of work, and you have to be dialed in and on top of it. Things happen very fast which requires good training and discipline. It is a very rewarding journey. I hope you make the move someday.

By the way, Cessna is shifting away from Proline and moving closer to Garmin flight decks. I believe the CJ4 now has the 5000 and the CJ2 Alpine conversion and M2 use the 3000.

Bingo!

Way I see it, hardly a reason to be over 180-200KIAS in the sim...or climb faster than 2000FPM, while getting the lay of the land.

You can always speed way up, once you get bored!

I think that a lot of the "easier than a 172"- type comments come from folks who are already completely comfortable in the modern turbojet environment. It does seem like more work going into a complex piston twin or turboprop after that. Or even a CE-500 series with a KLN-90B!

CJ3+ has the same G3000 cockpit as the M2. Nothing has been announced for the CJ4 yet.

If Clay wants Garmin in a CJ3 he can get a CJ3+ or CJ2+ w/Alpine Edition.

CJ3+ has the same G3000 cockpit as the M2. Nothing has been announced for the CJ4 yet.

If Clay wants Garmin in a CJ3 he can get a CJ3+ or CJ2+ w/Alpine Edition.

Don't be scared of the Proline 21, get someone who knows it really well to show you how to operate it and you'll soon realize that it makes flying a SP jet much easier than using steam gauges or Garmin stuff. The people who bash it on here haven't spent more than 30 seconds trying to learn how it works. It actually takes very little button pushing, you just have to change the way you think a bit after using Garmins and just hitting the direct to button everywhere. You're going to get airways/sids/stars on just about every flight in a jet and it is far easier to manage with a real FMS. Like Allen said, just pull the throttles back if things start happening too fast, this plane has plenty of thrust and will fly just fine at half throttle.