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21 Nov 2025, 13:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 17:09 
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Joined: 01/06/11
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Location: Missouri
Aircraft: C-120 RV8
Username Protected wrote:
Somebody help explain what if means to Jason.
I think he went to school with bill Clinton.


From Van's website: http://www.vansaircraft.com

"By the end of 2012, about 8000 RV kits have been completed and flown, and thousands more are under construction. Completion rates currently average about 1.5 per day. RVs are flying in at least 45 different countries and kits have shipped to about sixty. From a small farm in Oregon, these wonderful airplanes have achieved a global following. Not because of any superior marketing campaign, but simply because they fly so well and bring so much pleasure to their builders."

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 17:24 
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Joined: 02/13/10
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Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
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Username Protected wrote:
Somebody help explain what if means to Jason.
I think he went to school with bill Clinton.


From Van's website: http://www.vansaircraft.com

"By the end of 2012, about 8000 RV kits have been completed and flown, and thousands more are under construction. Completion rates currently average about 1.5 per day. RVs are flying in at least 45 different countries and kits have shipped to about sixty. From a small farm in Oregon, these wonderful airplanes have achieved a global following. Not because of any superior marketing campaign, but simply because they fly so well and bring so much pleasure to their builders."

Robert

And I heard recently that the number completed and flown was up to 8800.
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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 18:02 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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And you can put a chute on the RV's (not all, but the 7 and 9 I believe). :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 18:22 
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Company: Retired
Location: Farmersville, TX
Aircraft: 2007 RANS S-6ES
One of the big draws for me is the ability to add air conditioning to an experimental amateur built airplane. There is an all-electric unit that is used on some S-LSAs (with factory approval) that I think would be perfect for experimental builders. About the same weight as an LSA full-plane parachute (~35 lbs, IIRC).

Can't add an A/C unit added to my Commander (no STC'ed units available), but could be added to pretty much any experimental. With an A/C unit onboard, the Commander would be the perfect airplane for me... Texas summers can be a real pain! :whiteflag:

(Yeah, I know about B-Kool and Artic Air, and I'll probably wind up with one pretty soon, but that is a distinct "second best" to a "real" A/C unit. Finding / hauling ice is not as simple when you live way out in the country...)

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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 18:46 
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Joined: 05/22/09
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Aircraft: 1977 A36
1.5 per day = 500-600 per year

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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 18:53 
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Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
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Username Protected wrote:
1.5 per day = 500-600 per year

Actually, it's 547.5... :duck:

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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 19:48 
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Joined: 12/19/08
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Username Protected wrote:
1.5 per day = 500-600 per year

Actually, it's 547.5... :duck:


Not on a leap year.
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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 20:06 
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Joined: 04/04/12
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Location: KSBP, CA
Aircraft: V35B
The answer I come up with is "Yes".

1. Based on my observation of experimentals flying, and being built. 2. The enthusiasm that their owners have. The EAA clubs Attendance (they invite all the pilots at the airport). 3. The lower cost of a Panel, at what ever level you choose, VFR or IFR. 4. Trade off of speed to GPH, in many cases. 5. RV's sold and built numbers are hard to argue against.

I see RVs everywhere I fly. I have landed at 60 different airports in the last 12 months. 3 Class B, 4 Class C, 33 Class D, and the remainder (20) Non-Towered. Glass air, Lanceair, Epic and many others I cannot name.

In my hangar Bay of 6 hangars there are 3 Lance Air 4Ps, 1 Questair Venture, 1 Epic, My Bonanza and 2 Cherokees. In the next two bays are several RVs and the next bay over a couple more.

I love my Bonanza, but if I go bigger, it will be Baron or Epic. If I go smaller it will be Lanceair 4P or RV.

My instructor here in SLO is swamped literally. He has hired two more instructors, and has three rentals flying almost non stop. Gary is working everyday. Young and old, male and female in training. I am glad I learn two years ago while we were still in recession. I could easily get on his schedule back then.

Some posted difficulty with foreign country flying, The only other countries I am concerned with is Canada and Mexico, and neither has been an issue for my buddy Jeff's Epic or Lance air 4P.

If not a "save" it's at least a middle inning "reliever"!


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 20:29 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
Honestly, if someone would build a pressurised, FIKI twin kitplane with only two seats, that runs on jet fuel and has more than 2000nm range and does at least 220kts, then I'd build it in a heartbeat and get rid of the Aerostar. Rarely do I fly more than myself plus a passenger.

The Wings Derringer was a move in the right direction as a 2 seater twin, but alas, it never took off.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 20:41 
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Joined: 07/30/12
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Company: Aerlogix, Jet Aeronautical
Location: Prescott, AZ
Aircraft: B-55, RV-6
^^^^

Great looking plane, never heard of it. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2014, 03:15 
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Joined: 04/04/14
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Location: Boonton Twp, NJ
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I wonder how different you would have to make a Bonanza like homebuilders kit and not make it stupid expensive or get sued by Beech.

Basically a three door, long wing V Tail "36" that is light enough for six adults with reasonable fuel.

Use main gear that's compatible with using used Bonanza gear from wrecked planes. Make the nose different to allow more engine options (rearward folding gear, maybe a tail dragger)

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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2014, 09:12 
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Joined: 03/10/11
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Location: Allen, TX (based T31)
Aircraft: BE35,CE 500/650/750
Username Protected wrote:
One of the big draws for me is the ability to add air conditioning to an experimental amateur built airplane. There is an all-electric unit that is used on some S-LSAs (with factory approval) that I think would be perfect for experimental builders. About the same weight as an LSA full-plane parachute (~35 lbs, IIRC).

Can't add an A/C unit added to my Commander (no STC'ed units available), but could be added to pretty much any experimental. With an A/C unit onboard, the Commander would be the perfect airplane for me... Texas summers can be a real pain! :whiteflag:

(Yeah, I know about B-Kool and Artic Air, and I'll probably wind up with one pretty soon, but that is a distinct "second best" to a "real" A/C unit. Finding / hauling ice is not as simple when you live way out in the country...)


Hey Jim - is that your Commander tied down on the N ramp at KTKI? Is your flight instructor a nice lady with initials AS?

BTW, I have a B-Kool, and it works well. But I only use it a few times each summer because I rarely remember to get ice - I suppose it just doesn't matter that much unless it's well over 100. At 3,000ft it's only 95 :lol:

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Paul Sergeant, ATP/CFI etc, Bonanza pilot.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2014, 10:16 
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Joined: 06/13/11
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Location: South Texas
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Username Protected wrote:

The Wings Derringer was a move in the right direction as a 2 seater twin, but alas, it never took off.

I always liked the concept of the Wings Derringer too. It would make a great homebuilt if it was brought back.

Kind of like a twin engine RV.

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Mark Shilling
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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2014, 23:57 
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Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 804
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Company: Retired
Location: Farmersville, TX
Aircraft: 2007 RANS S-6ES
Username Protected wrote:
BTW, I have a B-Kool, and it works well. But I only use it a few times each summer because I rarely remember to get ice - I suppose it just doesn't matter that much unless it's well over 100. At 3,000ft it's only 95 :lol:

Sadly, I know exactly what you mean... Used to live in Houston. Highs around 95°F, but at night it would cool down to 95°F or so... Last summer I climbed to 7500 feet, and it was still 85°... That's part of the reason I now own a turbo-normalized Commander, and two oxygen bottles! Cooler up at 16,500 or 17,500!

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Jim Parker
2007 Rans S-6ES


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 Post subject: Re: Can Experimentals save General Aviation?
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2014, 02:09 
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James it's not polite to brag . . .


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