19 Jun 2025, 15:52 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 09:36 |
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Joined: 12/18/07 Posts: 20938 Post Likes: +10181 Location: W Michigan
Aircraft: Ex PA22, P28R, V35B
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Username Protected wrote: Pfffffft, search and report back – – – When was the last time the US nationalize a business? - - -
FAFO GM in 2008?
_________________ Stop Continental Drift.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 16:41 |
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Joined: 06/14/23 Posts: 32 Post Likes: +41 Location: Cocoa Beach, FL
Aircraft: Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: Don't discount how much the SpaceX success in the 21st Century was predicated on the technical innovation and output from NASA in the 20th.
There's absolutely technical advancement happening across the space industry, but their baseline was from a textbook on NASA's prior successes and failures.
The DC-X was certainly impressive and showed the world that it was technically viable. It’s a shame they stopped progression on the technology so soon.
With that said, the progression from a test vehicle to an orbital class rocket cannot be overlooked. Orbital rockets have much higher velocities, re-entry loads, heating, slosh dynamics, and guidance precision required while using minimum fuel to maximize payload to orbit. This is a fundamental leap in advancement and not simply solved by some extra funding.
Both are impressive in their own right but there was a lot to still develop - if it was easy then other companies and countries would be landing their rockets too.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 17:17 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20354 Post Likes: +25524 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: The DC-X was certainly impressive and showed the world that it was technically viable. Did it ever go to orbit and return? I didn't think so, and thus it did not confirm viability of the concept. It is relatively easy to takeoff, hover and land compared to an orbital flight. The "rocket equation" is very unfriendly to carrying around mass you aren't using, hence staging. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 18:51 |
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Joined: 06/14/23 Posts: 32 Post Likes: +41 Location: Cocoa Beach, FL
Aircraft: Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: The DC-X was certainly impressive and showed the world that it was technically viable. Did it ever go to orbit and return? I didn't think so, and thus it did not confirm viability of the concept. It is relatively easy to takeoff, hover and land compared to an orbital flight. The "rocket equation" is very unfriendly to carrying around mass you aren't using, hence staging. Mike C.
Totally agree - saying rocket landings were solved in the 90s if they had a bit more cash is massively understating the difficulty.
What the DC-X did prove is thrust vector control and ability to deep throttle liquid engines, which is not easy.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 10 Jun 2025, 13:15 |
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Joined: 05/21/15 Posts: 1388 Post Likes: +1503
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Well getting to see the SpaceX launch facilities and Starbase up close is going to get a lot harder. https://www.texastribune.org/2025/06/01 ... cex-beach/Very soon you are not just going to be able to jump in your Bugsmasher 2000 for a $100 hamburger run down to BRO and rent a car for a day at Boca Chica Beach. Boca Beach closures amid SpaceX expansion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R3aOoXUgRYThis link will give you up to date information on Highway 4 from Cameron County - https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/Looks like Highway 4 will be open for major holidays....for now. WARNING - Once you leave Brownsville there is nothing on Highway 4 to support you, no gas stations, no bathrooms, no mini-mart, no water, no nothing.....you've been warned. Elon claims he is going to be shooting 1000 rockets per year (yes you read that correctly) so rough math is three launches per day.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 11 Jun 2025, 19:32 |
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Joined: 08/26/15 Posts: 9937 Post Likes: +9839 Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320) Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
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Username Protected wrote: The base rotation maneuver was a major success….. and the difficult feat. The software to control sloshing fuel with a response was not easy. Remember computing was not the same as it is today.
This reminds me of one of my engineering profs who'd worked on the Canadarm (space arm in the cargo bay of the space shuttles). His specialties included feedback control systems and robotics. He told us that the development team took the approach of software control of the motors at each joint in the arm. They had to account for everything from gear lash to the sections of the arm springing (individually and together, I suppose), lots of complicated stuff about modeling the dynamics in the first place and then controlling all that bouncing with computerized control of the motors in all those elbows. The payoff would be weight savings from not needing physical dampers. A lot of contemporary experts in the field at the time thought their approach was impractical or even impossible using what was then the state of the art in computing. (And they weren't completely wrong!) I thought of it like when you're holding a flexible transmission dipstick, at arm's length, and trying to put it back into its tube- but exponentially more complicated.
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Post subject: Re: SpaceX Starship Launch Posted: 11 Jun 2025, 22:42 |
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Joined: 03/23/11 Posts: 14301 Post Likes: +6508 Location: Frederick, MD
Aircraft: V35A TC
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yup....It was described as balancing a broom stick by the handle....with a half filled, sloshing, 5 gallon bucket on the end. Not the easiest to model and control..... Username Protected wrote: The base rotation maneuver was a major success….. and the difficult feat. The software to control sloshing fuel with a response was not easy. Remember computing was not the same as it is today.
This reminds me of one of my engineering profs who'd worked on the Canadarm (space arm in the cargo bay of the space shuttles). His specialties included feedback control systems and robotics. He told us that the development team took the approach of software control of the motors at each joint in the arm. They had to account for everything from gear lash to the sections of the arm springing (individually and together, I suppose), lots of complicated stuff about modeling the dynamics in the first place and then controlling all that bouncing with computerized control of the motors in all those elbows. The payoff would be weight savings from not needing physical dampers. A lot of contemporary experts in the field at the time thought their approach was impractical or even impossible using what was then the state of the art in computing. (And they weren't completely wrong!) I thought of it like when you're holding a flexible transmission dipstick, at arm's length, and trying to put it back into its tube- but exponentially more complicated.
_________________ Views represented here are my own.....and do not in anyway reflect my employer's position.
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