The C90 ceiling was FL300 but we usually flew near FL200 to keep the cabin altitude reasonable. Usually trued out near 225KTs. I could basically fill the cabin (and did many times), with full fuel. One can get a nice older King Air for around 1/2 million with -21 engines. A million used to be a mid-80s King Air with mid time Black Hawk engines. They seem to be more now. The Meridian had the range, but not the payload for me at the time and the Capex was much higher.

Anybody taking a legacy citation to a factory service center for Mx, needs their head examined IMHO. The only argument I can see for that is that they can afford to pay for “top-notch service” and their time value is such that they can’t waste any time sourcing reasonably priced parts/service so they take it to the factory. If you can afford to overpay the factory to do everything at inflated prices then go out and buy yourself a 5-8 year old CJx. Legacy citations are for value buyers like us that want the best bang-buck ratio we can afford. Which is why in almost all situations service center Mx is pure lunacy. This is akin to buying a 15 year old Mercedes for 5k and taking it to the Stealer for all Mx.
I’m sure there are people out there that do that, but WHY?

60g / ~400 lbs

TBM reserve of 60 gal is conservative, 50 is what is often taught. I have done many comfortably with 40 BUT that is with known routing with near zero chance of getting undesired ATC “lower” and lots of options for stops enroute.

This is said a lot but it is not actually a good idea. If we did that for buying cars, they would have 1 seat and drive 30 miles on a tank of gas.

If you buy an airplane for your average mission, then you lost ALL above average missions. Now your average is LOWER than you wanted.

I believe the correct approach is to define the maximum mission you want to be able to do. Then buy the airplane that fits it.

In most cases, you buy the most airplane you can afford and your mission profile grows to fill its capabilities. This is supply side economics rather than demand side.

Someone once asked me "if money was no object, what airplane would you buy?". My answer was the USS Enterprise, though I'd settle for a warp capable shuttle if the market was tight.

Mike C.

Mike, with all due respect, this is nuts. Terrible allocation of capital. 65% of my flights are 100nm. Once a year I'll fly coast to coast. I need a Gulfstream?

Since you brought up cars. Not long ago I drove a car from OK to CA. I couldn't find a single car with a 150 gallon tank to make the trip non-stop. If I find one I'm suddenly going to find a need to drive 1,500 mile trips?

There is a reason the 80% rule has been used for years.

Regarding reserves, and for those considering a Meridian I use a sliding scale depending on conditions. I start with a 200# minimum. This is for familiar, non-mountainous airports with CAVU and not a busy field. Mountain airport? Add 50#s. Marginal VFR or high IFR? Add 50#s. Low IFR add another 50#s (cumulative with the foregoing for 100#s for low IFR). Busy field? Add 50#s? Unfamiliar field? Add 50#s. If I get to 400#s reserve I reconsider whether I want to make the flight or wait until one of the factors is mitigated.

Since your average mission is 100 nm, you need a Cessna 150, if you follow the guidance given above. Good luck on that 3 day transcon flight.

If I had a spaceship that did warp 9, I'd probably visit Alpha Centauri more often. Your missions expand when you have more capability.


Using capital to have fun is not terrible. You can't take it with you in the end.

Mike C.

TBM fuel:

Arriving in mountains:
widespread VFR 60 gallons
Flatlands VFR 50-60 with lots of VFR options

Arriving mountains;
Widespread IMC > 100g minimum

Was I safe, yes. Was I conservative, yes. Is my family flying with me safe, yes. Are we all alive, yes.

When I was in my first 150 hours in the TBM my minimum was 100 gallons IF that would get me to VFR weather from widespread IMC. Better safe than sorry, thanks John Elford.

Minimums lowered in some situations after my first year and the experience and knowledge/timeintype/confidence it brings.

Be safe out there.

Folks comparing a Mustang to the TBM, range and payload, are shorting the legs of the TBM and lengthening the Mustangs. IN to Naples, Naples to IN I could make it easy every time. Friend in his Mustang, same distance, had to stop frequently when winds hurt his time. He complained because he’d had a TBM. The one I bought….. I like the Mustang too.

Since your average mission is 100 nm, you need a Cessna 150, if you follow the guidance given above. Good luck on that 3 day transcon flight.

If I had a spaceship that did warp 9, I'd probably visit Alpha Centauri more often. Your missions expand when you have more capability.


Using capital to have fun is not terrible. You can't take it with you in the end.

Mike C.

My calculations:
People + luggage = 755 lbs. 130 for each of 2 women, another dude at 200, and me at 170 (real world numbers for us).
Used fuel = 1426 lbs (ideal)
Reserve fuel = 528 lbs for this flight (79 gal's).

this gives me a takeoff at gross.
If I get low routing, I pull the power back and burn 50-55 GPH.
attached is my W&B.

This is a 990nm trip on a plane with a range of 1500nm. I've done it--and it's not even close on fuel.

Since your average mission is 100 nm, you need a Cessna 150, if you follow the guidance given above. Good luck on that 3 day transcon flight.

If I had a spaceship that did warp 9, I'd probably visit Alpha Centauri more often. Your missions expand when you have more capability.


Using capital to have fun is not terrible. You can't take it with you in the end.

Mike C.

Mike could file for worm hole routing! Probably would need new data cards for that. Factor that into costs.

Gary, this is Beechtalk. ALL threads eventually turn into a discussion about jets, specifically Citation 500 series.

yeah. I'll learn eventually....