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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 14:59 
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BT is a religion.

“Thou shalt have no god before me....”

(Did I read that in the BT rules?) ;)

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 16:54 
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I'm not the Cirrus type and think they are over-hyped, but it seems they have injected fresh blood into GA, especially with new pilots.

I'm sure every real jet maker sees SF50 owners as potential customers when they find out they don't have a real jet.

Thee are already a fair number of SF50s for sale with a couple hundred hours.

Quote:
I do kind of like the idea of a chute, especially if I ever get around to flying here in the MENA region. MANPADS, ya know...

An SF50 chute after a MANPADS hit is unlikely to be functional, and neither are the occupants. Flying higher and faster would probably lead to more safety than having an SF50 with a chute, but that requires a real jet.

So far, zero uses of the SF50 chute, so no lives "saved". It may be quite a while before we have our first one.

One of the "benefits" of the SR20/22 series having unreliable engines is that Cirrus gets a lot of good publicity from that with the chute deployments plus more sales on replacement aircraft. Not a great thing when less reliability drives more revenue.

The SF50 is not providing the same "benefits" so far.

Mike C.

The SF50 is the gateway drug to the twin jet.

Just to clarify, I like the idea of a chute on a twin jet. Just in case you get hit on approach or departure. And then you have proper SAM's and even air-to-air that can get you all the way up to your service ceiling. Of course the occupants are at risk from the shrapnel. But if you were designing a business jet for people who are concerned about getting shot down, along with a parachute you could include some Kevlar here and there. Who knows, maybe there is a market for such a thing. The fact is, shoot-downs are becoming an increasing percentage of jet crashes.
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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 18:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
The fact is, shoot-downs are becoming an increasing percentage of jet crashes.

I never considered this issue in my purchase decision.

I need to go research STCs for counter measures. Should I get chaff or flares? Maybe both?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 19:00 
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Username Protected wrote:
The SF50 is the gateway drug to the twin jet.

Exactly, you aren't getting high enough, literally.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 19:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
The SF50 is the gateway drug to the twin jet.

Exactly, you aren't getting high enough, literally.

Mike C.

you just bought a jet. You better get used to chaffing, the maintenance shops don't use Vaseline any more.
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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 19:25 
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you just bought a jet. You better get used to chaffing, the maintenance shops don't use Vaseline any more.

If a dedicated Citation V owner and an SF50 owner buy their airplane, operate it on the same missions, and then sell in 5 years, it isn't clear to me the SF50 was cheaper when considering net dollars.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 20:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm not the Cirrus type and think they are over-hyped, but it seems they have injected fresh blood into GA, especially with new pilots.

I'm sure every real jet maker sees SF50 owners as potential customers when they find out they don't have a real jet.

Thee are already a fair number of SF50s for sale with a couple hundred hours.

Quote:
I do kind of like the idea of a chute, especially if I ever get around to flying here in the MENA region. MANPADS, ya know...

An SF50 chute after a MANPADS hit is unlikely to be functional, and neither are the occupants. Flying higher and faster would probably lead to more safety than having an SF50 with a chute, but that requires a real jet.

So far, zero uses of the SF50 chute, so no lives "saved". It may be quite a while before we have our first one.

One of the "benefits" of the SR20/22 series having unreliable engines is that Cirrus gets a lot of good publicity from that with the chute deployments plus more sales on replacement aircraft. Not a great thing when less reliability drives more revenue.

The SF50 is not providing the same "benefits" so far.

Mike C.


"Real Jet"

The Cirrus jet is a real jet to me. In the range of jets there is room for owners of bigger ones and faster ones to say the lesser ones are not real jets. I can remember when the Citation came out it was referred to as the "Nearjet", the only jet subject to birdstrikes from the rear. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2021, 21:43 
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...and it's also a V-tail!!!


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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2021, 10:44 
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Hey Mike, I think talking about religion is against BT rules. ;)

BT is a religion.

Mike C.


No it's an addiction. At least that's what my drug counselor says.

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2021, 17:56 
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I can remember when the Citation came out it was referred to as the "Nearjet", the only jet subject to birdstrikes from the rear. ;)

I've heard several of those slang terms. "Nearjet" and "Slowtation" come to mind. However, since the Learjet is no longer, I'll call it the past jet instead of the fast jet.

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2021, 18:17 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Username Protected wrote:
you just bought a jet. You better get used to chaffing, the maintenance shops don't use Vaseline any more.

If a dedicated Citation V owner and an SF50 owner buy their airplane, operate it on the same missions, and then sell in 5 years, it isn't clear to me the SF50 was cheaper when considering net dollars.

Mike C.


As an owner pilot, 99% of your interface is with the cockpit. I look at the Citation V cockpit, and it just looks like a job, like washing dishes, or cleaning gutters or something :duck: . The SF50 cockpit looks enjoyable. Seriously, I can't imagine crawling into that cockpit after a long day at work and launching into night IMC. They would be digging me out of a hole while I was trying to remember which one of those 1232 buttons and dials turned the lights and the navigation systems back on. ;)

Seriously looking at that cockpit makes me a little angry. Who on earth would design something like that?

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2021, 20:49 
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Lear 24 1.jpg
Good point Chuck, and begs the question why the Citation got SP certification and the Lear 24 didn't. I can only think it was the performance, but there's only one guy on the controls at a time in either jet.

If they would give me SP authorization for a Lear 24, I'd buy that one on Controller and have my friends chip in for gas on the $1,000 hamburger flights. :D

In the 2 1/2 years I operated the Lear 24 it had almost 100% dispatch reliability, and the maintenance costs were low, operating Part 91. We kept a 10,000 gallon tank of Jet-A at the ranch which helped keep the fuel costs down.

But I'd still like to have a Cirrus SF50, unfortunately they're out of my income bracket, but I have my eye on this popular idea of "income equality." Why should a guy have two jets, when I have none? :D


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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2021, 23:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
...but I have my eye on this popular idea of "income equality." Why should a guy have two jets, when I have none? :D

"Income equality" means no one has a jet.

Making the rich poor doesn't make the poor rich.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2021, 23:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
...but I have my eye on this popular idea of "income equality." Why should a guy have two jets, when I have none? :D

"Income equality" means no one has a jet.

Making the rich poor doesn't make the poor rich.

Mike C.


Just kidding Mike; you're preaching to the choir, but not meaning to divert the topic, we should probably revisit it, while it's still there. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: CirrusJet Vs EclipseJet comparo
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 12:58 
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Man, if you're kvetching about who has the better jet, your life is pretty damn good. Sometimes a little perspective is important.


Last edited on 21 Feb 2021, 16:09, edited 1 time in total.

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