BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 09:57

Username Protected wrote:

In the jet I'm training in, you need about 75% of opposite rudder to compensate for the yaw. 100% would flip you upside down the other way though. Piston twin single engine stuff is child's play compared to jets.

Which jet are you training in and where are the engines located?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 10:34

Username Protected wrote:

Which jet are you training in and where are the engines located?

E175 so underwing engines. Lear 35 was pretty similar. I'd imagine a Citation might be a piece of cake compared to those though.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 10:39

If you lose one in a Citation you wind your watch... no big deal. Now if you lose one in a Lear, you’ve got a tiger by the tail. I’ve seen the red screen on my high, hot, and heavy day coming out of ABQ in the sim. Lesson learned.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 11:37

Agree, the V1 cuts in the Citations I flew were non-events if handled reasonably. The P-Baron was much less forgiving. I. The C90, also a non-event if something isn’t done incorrectly. TR right after rotation was a challenge, but the MITT doesn’t have those.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 12:47

Username Protected wrote:

I’ve never flown a jet, but... show me the bodies

Exactly.

The Vmc roll over accident is essentially non existent in the twin jet world.

It is, unfortunately, all too present in the propeller world.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 13:09

Username Protected wrote:

It is way, WAY, more violent maneuver than anything in a piston twin.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/sdjONqubZso[/youtube]

OMG, we are all going to... uh, live!

Quote:

It is way easier to kill yourself in a jet V1 cut than a twin piston engine failure. The speeds, forces required etc aren't even close.

Your statements are demonstrably false.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 13:35

Username Protected wrote:

Someday, someone will make a true personal VLJ that isn't crippled. What a wonderful day that will be.

Mike C.

It's closer than you think. SJ30i.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 16:14

Username Protected wrote:

Someday, someone will make a true personal VLJ that isn't crippled. What a wonderful day that will be.

Mike C.

It's closer than you think. SJ30i.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 16:29

Username Protected wrote:

What is the catch with the SJ30? Looks very impressive.

Lack of a viable company behind it.

Longish runway requirements.

Not enough examples flying to know all its faults yet.

Is there a simulator for training?

$8.3M price tag. Makes CJ3+, CJ4, PC-24 viable competitors.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 18:02

Username Protected wrote:

Which jet are you training in and where are the engines located?

E175 so underwing engines. Lear 35 was pretty similar. I'd imagine a Citation might be a piece of cake compared to those though.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2019, 20:27

Username Protected wrote:

Because a piston twin demands precise, quick, and correct action to handle an engine out on a plane that can just barely fly if you are perfect. If you fail, the plane kills you.

This is not true in a jet. There's no engine to feather. There's no large asymmetric thrust to cause a Vmc roll over. There's more than enough power to fly away on one engine. A jet does not have the faults of a piston airplane. That is, in fact, the main point here. The SF50 is sold on the basis of piston beliefs that do not apply.

Mike C.

Mike, have you ever flown a V1 cut in a jet?

It is way, WAY, more violent maneuver than anything in a piston twin.
a) the plane will yaw, violently.
b) even more so if you give it a reverser deployed failure
c) if you want to go crazy, try a compressor stall.
d) the asymmetric thrust is HUGE, and it will flip you upside down very quickly if you don't do it correctly. Much faster than a Vmc roll. And because the plane has plenty of rudder authority, you can also flip it upside down the other direction if you just go full piston mode with the rudder and stomp on it. In the jet I'm training in, you need about 75% of opposite rudder to compensate for the yaw. 100% would flip you upside down the other way though. Piston twin single engine stuff is child's play compared to jets.

It is way easier to kill yourself in a jet V1 cut than a twin piston engine failure. The speeds, forces required etc aren't even close.