Thread drift ahead - I went through engineering math at university 20 years ago. I help teach a few engineering classes at present and have for the last 10 years. Engineering, like all university classes, is easier now. The students are not pushed NEARLY as hard and there is a lot lower washout rates in the early years of the program b/c they are letting people through core engineering classes (physics, diffEQ, calc2-3, etc) that should have to redo them.

The result of this low washout rate is the folks in the advanced classes are, on the average, not as sharp and tend to complain WAY more about any assignment that is not super specific. Ironically, things like the IFR exam are loved by current students - you give them all the answers in advance and say memorize them. Ask the typical millennial student to 'think' vs 'regurgitate' and then grade them based on their actual quality of work and you will have a parent emailing you about how 'unfair' your class is.

Many professors lament the incentive structure at present, where student ratings are key to moving up professor ranks. Push folks hard, fail the people who shouldn't be in the room and see where your student ratings, and thus career opportunities end up.

Mentor pilot availability was mentioned. Generally is a mentor pilot a CFI. someone who was sent to training on aircraft. Can someone tell me what it means?

You have to have 300 hours in Mitsubishis and have an FAA approved training syllabus. to instruct in the MU-2. These mentors are getting pretty old. I should be there in another 1.5-2 years.

To be a mentor pilot? Those requirements sound like requirements to provide initial/recurrent training. I would think mentor means experienced as defined by insurance?

You are correct. I just don't think they'd let someone with less than that mentor but I may be wrong, I never asked the question to the insurance company.

You are correct. I just don't think they'd let someone with less than that mentor but I may be wrong, I never asked the question to the insurance company.

Hi all,
Again, thread drift...but check out ratemyprofessor.com
Kindly,
Ralph

Just killing time and stumbled across this thread. Two points stick out at me, although I've only been in an MU-2 once.

First, an engine failure in a jet, even the 737, is much, much easier than a propeller-driven twin. I hardly even think about them before I go into recurrent, because unless they've set it up high, hot, and heavy, the thing just requires rudder to center the ball, don't get to dutch rolling it, stay on speed and watch it climb out doing nothing else until at least 1,000' AGL, maybe higher.

You can't do that in a prop twin. Just can't. You have to deal with it and in a relatively expeditious way lest the drag simply slow your descent rate to the scene of the crash.

When I was just starting instructing a girl I went to MTSU with got to do a night check run with a guy out of Smyrna in an MU-2. He let her take off, she said a paper chart fell, he reached back to grab it, she looked too, and the airplane rolled into a trailer park. She survived. He spent the rest of his life eating out of a straw. It's not a plane for someone of your flight time unless you want to spend the next couple of years flying 10 hours a month WITH AN INSTRUCTOR WITH YOU ALL THE TIME.

Sorry, I know truth hurts sometimes, but it is what it is. Spending time in a piston twin is not "shortcutting the system", it's teaching you valuable skills you will take with you to the next level when you get there.

Second, insofar as insurance, I have more flight time than a lot of people on here will ever accumulate, in some cases 5x+ as much, flying 600-700+ hours a year, yet even moving from a Baron to a Duke (with previous King Air PIC single pilot time) the insurance is on the pricier side and one underwriter wanted 25 hours with an instructor.

WTH? No. Just... no.



I doubt you'll get underwritten. No offense, I just don't see it happening in this environment. Not by yourself anyway, probably requiring someone with you who meets the open pilot policy at the very least.

As for flying uninsured and having a conversation with God, that's kind of a stretch. One does not denote the other, unless you're tying it not getting any training at all and then, yes, probably so.

I will say if insurance companies keep increasing premiums and/or requirements, the number of people who just forego insurance will start increasing again.

Jonathan,
I have no problem with you buying an MU-2. Grab a full-time pilot, too. Finish your instrument with her, get your multi with her, fly all your cross-countries with her. You'll love it. She'll wrap up the plane while you head to business meetings, and get the flight plan filed for the way home. In a couple of years, you'll have >250h inst ha MU-2, you'll be eminently insurable, and you can choose to let her go on to other adventures if you so desire. In the grand scheme of things, 50k salary is the least of your worries.

-J

50K salary on MU2 capitol is significant. And I highly doubt you’ll find a pilot with the qualifications and experienced required for 50 K.

My two cents. I started in jets low time, with my first type in a falcon 50 at 700hrs and maybe 20 in a piston twin. The difference is not comparable. I was confined to the right seat next to a captain with 16k hours and learned the ropes. In the last 7 years, I have learned from every pilot I have flown with, and continue to learn. Now, I’m the left seater sitting next to guys with low time learning the ropes. All of these guys, and myself years ago, came to the airplane with much excitement, but even more fear. There was no question that we were very green, and had much to learn.

My point is, I think any upgrade is possible as long as you have the proper respect for the process and have the right training. A mentor is gonna be key for ya!

Good luck!

Jourdan, I like your idea. Does "She" have a name or contact info??

The strategy you've described is in the realm of possibility or consistent with what I'm thinking.

Sadly, it appears from discussions with a reputable MU2 insurance broker, hull coverage is not possible with my present qualifications. Liability insurance however is available. I discussed numerous strategies or limitations I would be willing to undertake to no avail.

For instance:

I was told flying the entirety of the 100 ME hours required to PIC the MU2, in an MU2 with an MU2 rated instructor would not matter.

Restricting the aircraft to "no passengers" only myself and instructor would not matter.

I was told, the only real solution to get insurance (hull and liability) was to:

1. Get an IFR rating then an ME rating in anything that flies. Build "twin time" flying in circles at 180 kts starting sun up to sun down anywhere you can.

2. Buy an MU2, and since I will have 70-80 hrs twin time plus an IFR ticket, I would be insurable.

Ironically, at this point, my requirements for insurance would be to pass the Initial training in an MU-2 and fly with a mentor/cfi for somewhere between 25-50 hrs. Somehow the underwriters can check the appropriate boxes this way. One very well known instructor suggested the exact same thing regarding building time in any piston twin.

Consider the following and imagine the responses likely to follow.

"My path to an MU2"
1. Get IFR rating, 7-10 day course.
2. Get ME rating in cheap POS twin.
3. Fly in circles for a month.
4. Buy MU2 and do Initial training while trying to forget everything about a piston twin that no longer applies in the MU2.
5. Fly with mentor/cfi for max 50 hrs.
6. Load up families, fly coast to coast.

The insurance company seems to be cool with the idea... I'm not.

So far, finding a rental twin is becoming a challenge. I've found a few reasonably close to home... after looking at them, I'd rather take my chances in an MU2 at 300kts than a 45 year old pile of corrosion painted in bird poop. But, the real world single engine training looks to be authentic.

Mr. Cude, if I might be so bold as to suggest a couple of things...

-the value of flying a piston twin isn't so much one of "flying in circles", as it is using it go "go places". When you "go places", you are forced to make weather decisions, evaluate airports for suitability, etc. (I recognize you have a Cirrus, and they are good traveling airplanes...but, in my observation, once a pilot gets to a Baron/310 level, they are often more likely to fly night/IFR....the kind of thing you will also do in a MU2).

-there is value in being "in the system" as both an IFR pilot, as well as a "twin pilot". Whether it's fair or not, I perceive that ATC treats you differently when flying a Baron vs. a Bonanza. (I have flown both over identical routes over the past several years...and the "handling" is different, despite virtually identical equipment other than the second engine). Part of what (I believe) the insurance company is wanting is for you to simply gain experience with something not quite as complex as an MU2...including dealing with ATC.

-"real world" IFR experience is highly valuable....it's the dealing with the unexpected, the stuff that goes wrong, but isn't an emergency....



-You can correctly say that I don't have MU2 experience. But I do have experience flying at both sub-100 knots, and plus-300 knots. I have flown night/IFR....and my belief is that "learning to think at 200 knots" takes a bit of time.

-one of the truisms that has come to dwell in my mind...is "you don't know what you don't know". That has "bitten" me on several airplane deals, house deals, business deals....when it's financial, it is painful, but usually recoverable. When it comes to flying IFR....for real....the consequences can be unrecoverable. Just my opinion...even a hundred hours won't give you the exposure to the real world you need.

-I believe the MU2 is one of the coolest planes ever built. When I was a kid, in San Angelo, TX...and saw them landing them out in all kinds of places...I fell in love with them. It's a great ultimate goal. They have bitten some experienced pilots. Inhofe. Gosselin. They have incredible capability, but that capability can put you in some dangerous places quickly...altitude, speed, and weather.



Thanks for reading my thoughts....summarized:
-Develop as a pilot, regardless of where you head eventually. IFR/ME/actual seasonal weather.
-Gain experience with more complex aircraft, managing multiple systems.


Good luck. There are some highly experienced guys on here. I suggest PM'ing Doug R. He would be a good information source.

We simply don't want to read about you on CrashTalk.

You made this statement about a month ago. Done yet? I hope so and wish you the best.

Of all the steps leading to flying an MU2, getting your IFR rating is probably the easiest.

+1

Buy a decent Baron for a year or two and a few hundred hours. You'll enjoy the learning and it won't cost you much in the end.